Jump to content


Photo

Could the USSR won WWII without the western allies


  • Please log in to reply
101 replies to this topic

#101 Detonable

Detonable

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 974 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 September 2005 - 1424 PM

1941 is not the decisive year, as far as production goes, since the Soviets enormously outbuilt the Germans up to that time. That's not at all true later in the war.

1942
Tanks
USSR (24,500 (G), 24,446) USA (23,884) Germany (9,300)
Aircraft
USSR (21,700 (G), 25,436) USA (48,000) Germany (15,409)

1943
Tanks
USSR (24,100 (G), 24,089) USA (29,497) Germany (19,800)
Aircraft
USSR (29,900 (G), 34,845) USA (86,000) Germany (24,807)

1944
Tanks
USSR (29,000 (G), 28,963) USA (17,565) Germany (27,300)
Aircraft
USSR (33,200 (G), 40,246) USA (96,000) Germany (39,807)

It should be pointed out that the Germans did face considerable American production in 1942. According to Glantz, perhaps 1/2 of the Luftwaffe's losses were due to the Western allies through about the end of 1942. Its just not correct to say that the Soviets pulled off Stalingrad without western help.

If you assume that the absence of lend-lease is due to America and Britain not being in the war, then the Germans pretty much have production parity in tanks and aircraft in 1943, given the loss ratios in effect. And, with Britain and the US out of the war, deliveries of tungsten and chrome would have continued from Turkey and Portugal, easing later German production problems. Perhaps imports from other countries would also have been possible.

Looking at the production numbers, its ridiculus to say the improved Soviet fortunes in 1943 demonstrate some great increase in ability on their part. The Germans were outbuilt by about 4:1 in 1942, assuming they faced 3/4 of US production. This should have arrived on one battlefield or another by mid-1943. Even with the enormous production discrepancies, the Germans reached bombing range of 90% of Soviet oil production in 1942.

Assuming no allied involvement, its hard to imagine the Soviets going very far in the face of German air supremacy in 1943 or 1944, particularly if they are short of trucks in the first place.

One could argue that if the western allies had fought without aiding the Soviets, the Soviet army still would have taken over Europe. Perhaps it would have taken a little longer.
  • 0

#102 Kensuke

Kensuke

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,125 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Phoenix, AZ. USA

Posted 22 September 2005 - 0016 AM

In regards to invading Russia, I've always suspected that the aspect where Germany really shot themselves in the foot was the genocide committed by the follow on SS units.

Bearing that in mind, I think the Russians still would have pulled though. Though maybe it would have taken longer.

If it weren't for the "Master Race" ideology of the Nazi Party you may well see a Russia less compelled to fight, and possibly more willing to turn against Stalin. After all, the Germans were initially greeted as liberators.

- John
  • 0




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users