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#1 Dawes

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 1817 PM

From all I've heard, seems to be a solid rifle:

 

https://www.thefirea...opts-lmt-rifle/


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#2 Simon Tan

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 2047 PM

Other than the pricetag and the shackling of replacement parts. ARs are commodity products at this juncture. LMT's barrel change and monolithic upper something from 10 years ago. It's not a bad system, it's just expensive to produce. They mill the upper from a proprietary forging. A handguard is usually extruded so you don't need the deep drilling and to machine out the internal volume. Forged uppers can be had for 50 bucks. Ambi lowers are nice to have but you wind up with proprietary small parts and you will train like a M16 anyway. You can get more guns or more parts or have money for more optics for what you spend on a gun that is 5% better. LMT has a hardworking UK/Europe rep.


Edited by Simon Tan, 05 December 2018 - 2048 PM.

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#3 Dawes

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 2141 PM

New Zealand seems to be liking theirs, once they got past the firing pin issues and cracked bolt carriers.

 

http://army.mil.nz/d...one-year-on.pdf


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#4 Zero_Alpha

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 1408 PM

New Zealand seems to be liking theirs, once they got past the firing pin issues and cracked bolt carriers.

 

http://army.mil.nz/d...one-year-on.pdf

 

The firing pin issue was over-blown. As part of the QA process NZ committee to 100% inspections. 7 (that's right, 7, not 7%& of the 9,800 weapons had firing pin issues. 9,800 pins replaced under warranty. 

 

In terms of spare parts, I've seen what was being paid for SteyrIW spares. A new Steyr receiver was costing nearly as much as an entire LMT MARS-L.


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#5 Simon Tan

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 2013 PM

It shouldn't.
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#6 GPMG

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 2213 PM

New Zealand seems to be liking theirs, once they got past the firing pin issues and cracked bolt carriers.
 
http://army.mil.nz/d...one-year-on.pdf

 
The firing pin issue was over-blown. As part of the QA process NZ committee to 100% inspections. 7 (that's right, 7, not 7%& of the 9,800 weapons had firing pin issues. 9,800 pins replaced under warranty. 
 
In terms of spare parts, I've seen what was being paid for SteyrIW spares. A new Steyr receiver was costing nearly as much as an entire LMT MARS-L.

Sounds like a good enough reason to bin the Steyr.
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#7 Simon Tan

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 2301 PM

Are those Steyr or Lithgow AUGs? A quick check at Brownells tells me that an all up F90 is 2K and a MARS-L is 2645. All up AUGA3 from Steyr is 1839. Maybe your procurement is FUBAR?


Edited by Simon Tan, 12 December 2018 - 2307 PM.

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#8 GPMG

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 2336 PM

I presume its Australian AUGs. Except for a few early Austrian AUGs which may have been only Carbines, which had a reputation of being more reliable than the Australian version, all New Zealand AUGs were Australian made.
Possibly the price is the result of having only one supplier, so no competition.

Edited by GPMG, 12 December 2018 - 2338 PM.

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#9 Simon Tan

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 2337 PM

A bit of that ANZAC brotherly love. 


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#10 Zero_Alpha

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 0436 AM

Are those Steyr or Lithgow AUGs? A quick check at Brownells tells me that an all up F90 is 2K and a MARS-L is 2645. All up AUGA3 from Steyr is 1839. Maybe your procurement is FUBAR?

 

You're conflating issues :D

 

-The NZ Steyrs are all Australian F88s. The supply chain was winding down with Thales moving to the enchanted Aus Steyr.

 

- The prices you've quoted are many orders of magnitude higher than unit costs military clients pay

 

- Procurement is fubar  :D


Edited by Zero_Alpha, 13 December 2018 - 1306 PM.

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#11 Simon Tan

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 0606 AM

Steyr AUG A1 receivers are pretty cheap castings. The big ticket item is that optic. The original Swaro straw was good but I've seen both Japanese and Chinese glass used in lieu with poor results. I could not believe how nasty the AUG was when you break it down. 


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#12 Arminius

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 1934 PM

Please define "nasty" in that context.

 

thx, Hermann


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#13 Simon Tan

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 1956 PM

The cheap receiver casting. The cheapass trigger pack which Steyr charges a fortune for. Everything designed for injection molding but at machined pricing. Shit even the optic was an expensive crap out. A 14mm objective is just useless in twilight.
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#14 2805662

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 1404 PM


New Zealand seems to be liking theirs, once they got past the firing pin issues and cracked bolt carriers.
 
http://army.mil.nz/d...one-year-on.pdf

 
The firing pin issue was over-blown. As part of the QA process NZ committee to 100% inspections. 7 (that's right, 7, not 7%& of the 9,800 weapons had firing pin issues. 9,800 pins replaced under warranty. 
 
In terms of spare parts, I've seen what was being paid for SteyrIW spares. A new Steyr receiver was costing nearly as much as an entire LMT MARS-L.

Minimum order quantities are a thing, especially if parts arent in stock or production. Im betting that the lead time on that receiver was between 12-26 weeks, too. Sometimes items are priced as a disincentive - then the customer says yes anyway. These are some of the realities of producing/supporting tiny quantities of unique items at a rate that is impossible to forecast.
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#15 Simon Tan

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 2316 PM

Rubbish. New receivers live in boxes. There are always leftovers from casting runs. I never saw them unmachined just left in the white. Most are actually painted and in foam wrap. Nobody does small casting runs on indent.
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#16 2805662

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 2349 PM

Lots of absolutes in that statement. Im talking about Australian-produced receivers from production that started in 1988. With the transition to the SA1, production shifted to flat top receivers. The NZDF didnt, meaning that new, blank receivers with the integral optic were drawing down stocks that ceased new production about 20 years ago, at least. Want to maintain the original engineering baseline? Pay up.
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#17 Simon Tan

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 2021 PM

Or buy the same thing from Malaysia.
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#18 Nobu

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 1344 PM

Simon, if I may, I wish you had been born a Japanese in various ways. A respected position in Japan's armaments ministry would be your calling.


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#19 Panzermann

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 0317 AM

Simon, if I may, I wish you had been born a Japanese in various ways. A respected position in Japan's armaments ministry would be your calling.

 

He would run screaming from the red tape and glacial pace things are done, I bet. ;)


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#20 Colin

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 1324 PM

Other than the pricetag and the shackling of replacement parts. ARs are commodity products at this juncture. LMT's barrel change and monolithic upper something from 10 years ago. It's not a bad system, it's just expensive to produce. They mill the upper from a proprietary forging. A handguard is usually extruded so you don't need the deep drilling and to machine out the internal volume. Forged uppers can be had for 50 bucks. Ambi lowers are nice to have but you wind up with proprietary small parts and you will train like a M16 anyway. You can get more guns or more parts or have money for more optics for what you spend on a gun that is 5% better. LMT has a hardworking UK/Europe rep.

Norinco cannot compete with most US AR makers at this point, they can't get their productions cost down. Hence the reason they aren't selling many to Canada at this point. 


Edited by Colin, 04 January 2019 - 1324 PM.

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