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#21 RETAC21

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Posted 24 November 2018 - 1241 PM

 

 

1853 Tokyo Bay US Black Ships
1856 US vs Qing Battle of Barrier Forts
1900 Boxer rebellion participation
Early 1900s before WW1 colonization of the Philippines

 
Neither of those engaged a major power of the time. The Spanish-American War of 1898 is the first time the US comes in direct conflict with a European power involving seizure of territory and expanding beyond the current US borders, the the Venezuelan crisis of 1902-03, when the US told the Germans to pull back, the Treaty of Portsmouth, etc.

That's besides the point. Maybe not in a shooting match with one of the major powers but certainly competed with them in imperialism, the Philippines being an example of going the whole 9 yards. The main point is that WW1 was not the point when the US, on a basis of an idealism of sorts, decided to venture out into the big world of global competition. The US was sure to get a share among other competing powers. Plenty of other big European powers didn't fight each other either (post Nepolean at least) such as the UK and France but that didn't mean the two didn't compete with each other in Africa, the ME, and Indochina (where Siam managed to balance the two against each other). If the US was not interested in big power competition, then they wouldn't have gone as far as fighting and trying to set up enterprises in the China land mass or thouroughly colonizing the Philippines.

 

 

If you believe so, then you need to read a bit on the War of 1812 and the Madison doctrine. Or the Mexican-American war. 


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#22 shep854

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Posted 24 November 2018 - 2141 PM


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#23 DougRichards

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 0143 AM

 

 

1853 Tokyo Bay US Black Ships
1856 US vs Qing Battle of Barrier Forts
1900 Boxer rebellion participation
Early 1900s before WW1 colonization of the Philippines

 
Neither of those engaged a major power of the time. The Spanish-American War of 1898 is the first time the US comes in direct conflict with a European power involving seizure of territory and expanding beyond the current US borders, the the Venezuelan crisis of 1902-03, when the US told the Germans to pull back, the Treaty of Portsmouth, etc.

That's besides the point. Maybe not in a shooting match with one of the major powers but certainly competed with them in imperialism, the Philippines being an example of going the whole 9 yards. The main point is that WW1 was not the point when the US, on a basis of an idealism of sorts, decided to venture out into the big world of global competition. The US was sure to get a share among other competing powers. Plenty of other big European powers didn't fight each other either (post Nepolean at least) such as the UK and France but that didn't mean the two didn't compete with each other in Africa, the ME, and Indochina (where Siam managed to balance the two against each other). If the US was not interested in big power competition, then they wouldn't have gone as far as fighting and trying to set up enterprises in the China land mass or thouroughly colonizing the Philippines.

 

 

I do not know if the term 'the full nine yards' would apply.  27 feet - nine yards - was the length of a belt of ammunition for a USAAF WW2 fighter - giving a target the full nine yards implies emptying your guns at the target. So prior to 1942, the term really does not apply.

 

Now, if you are referring to American Football - going ten yards gets you a first down: the chance to give your opponent another blow whilst they are on the defence.


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#24 wendist

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 0307 AM

If wiki can be trusted. ;)

 

https://en.wikipedia...hole_nine_yards


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#25 Markus Becker

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 1343 PM

 

A war we should never have gotten involved in, and is the root cause of most of the worlds problems today.  

GB would have won the war in 1919 anyway.

 

 

If the Entente had decided to fight on. But with the knowledge that a million or so fresh US troops won't come, while the still intact Germany army holds a strong position and get's stronger thanks to the war ending in the east negotiations might have happend. 

 

Re: The Spanish flu. Didn't that come with the troops from the USA? No US Dow - no global flu pandemic? 


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#26 Panzermann

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 1814 PM



 



 



A war we should never have gotten involved in, and is the root cause of most of the worlds problems today.  

GB would have won the war in 1919 anyway.

 

 

If the Entente had decided to fight on. But with the knowledge that a million or so fresh US troops won't come, while the still intact Germany army holds a strong position and get's stronger thanks to the war ending in the east negotiations might have happend. [/quote]

 

A further standstill and even more unmovaeable frontline would probably have led to negotiations. All sides were pretty exhausted and the GReat War contnued into 1919 or 20 even. I doubt they could have sold that. Also there was tthe russian civil war/revolution going on. Which may have inspired worker uprisings (as it did in real history), further undermining the war effort.

 

[quote]

Re: The Spanish flu. Didn't that come with the troops from the USA? No US Dow - no global flu pandemic? 

 

 

The troop transpaorts and many men assembled in hospitals and camps certainly helped spread the spanish flu, but as the USA was trading with europe the influenca viruses type H1N1 would have crossed the atlantic sooner or later. It is not like there was only traffic on the atlantic ocean, when the USA were engaged in a war in europe. IIRC the first wave is said to have begun in Haskell County, but who knows for sure with the sketchy records.


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#27 JasonJ

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 2203 PM

If wiki can be trusted. ;)
 
https://en.wikipedia...hole_nine_yards


Even some very senior TN members still don't know some good ole' American expressions :)
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#28 DougRichards

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Posted 25 December 2018 - 2221 PM

https://www.abc.net....battle/10668462

 

Building a national World War I memorial in Washington proves to be an uphill battle

To an Australian, the task sounds like it should be simple.

Key points:
  • After missing the first deadline, the new date for construction is Remembrance Day 2021
  • Millions of dollars in donations will be needed to finish the memorial
  • It will be tucked away near the White House as the national mall is crowded with other monuments

 

Build a national World War I memorial in the centre of Washington DC in time for the 100th anniversary of the armistice.

America is a nation that makes a point of honouring its veterans.

During the Great War, 116,000 "doughboys" died and while all the other major 20th century conflicts that helped turn the US into the globe's unrivalled superpower have iconic monuments on the capital's national mall, there is not one commemorating the war in which they fought.

 

So, how hard could building it be?

"It's incredibly complicated," said Edwin Fountain from the US World War I Centennial Commission.

"Building a memorial in the capital … is always complex."

We are chatting in a run-down, leaf-filled park that was by now meant to be home to a cascading fountain and huge bronze sculpture wall.

 

Yes, the deadline has already passed.

No construction has taken place even though a ceremonial ground breaking was held a year ago.

The new date for completion is now Remembrance Day 2021.

"You've got to remember, the idea of a national memorial is relatively new in America," Mr Fountain said.

"We've been working backwards … we've now got the others, this is next. We are going to get it built."

But this national project has had extra challenges.

The government provided no public money and it needs many millions more in donations.

Space has also been an issue too.

The national mall is already crowded — Congress would have had to grant a new memorial a special exemption — so instead of being alongside all the others, the World War I site is tucked away near the White House.

 

WWI doesn't live large in national consciousness

Some historians have suggested Hollywood is partly to blame.

Most Americans can rattle off half a dozen movies about World War II or Vietnam, while Korea was immortalised in popular culture by the TV show M*A*S*H.

When I randomly quized interstate tourists visiting Washington, many seemed to have more general knowledge about the Civil War and War of Independence than the century old clash of European empires.

"We came in towards the end of World War I and afterwards there was a lot of debate whether we should have at all," Mr Fountain said.

"It also wasn't the decisive victory of World War II.

"But you can't understand American history without properly understanding what happened in World War I. It raises a lot of questions about what America's place in the world should be."

Even if the 2021 deadline slips by, Mr Fountain and his team said they would keeping fighting for the memorial.

They said it sends an important symbolic message, as well as one of remembrance.

"By honouring the Americans who died a century ago, we show today's servicemen and women risking their lives overseas that they too will never be forgotten."


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#29 Murph

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 0639 AM

Yep, I would like to see a thaw in US-Russian relations.  

By the way, Russia and the USA had a special relationship as early as 1861,

 

wiki

 

During the winter of 1861–1862, the Imperial Russian Navy sent two fleets to American waters to avoid their getting trapped if a war broke out with Britain and France. Many Americans at the time viewed this as an intervention on behalf of the Union, though historians deny this.[17] The Alexander Nevsky and the other vessels of the Atlantic squadron stayed in American waters for seven months (September 1863 to June 1864).[18]

 

but also see

 

https://www.rbth.com...york_29761.html


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