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Torpedoed Tankers

false flag or real?

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#581 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 0633 AM

Its a good idea. I would be a little excessive to use a Harpoon missile on a Boghammar....

 

MOD gets a lot of criticism, but they are actually pretty good at picking up on these emergency procurement orders.I just hope they can sustain it in service.


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#582 lastdingo

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 0737 AM

The Harpoons are paid for and old. They're going to be wasted by EOD sooner or later anyway, and shipboard Harpoons are of little use against other navies.


Edited by lastdingo, 17 July 2019 - 0737 AM.

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#583 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 0742 AM

Its the MOD. Buying the launch mounts FOR the Harpoon is the cost. Ask Chris Werb.


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#584 Chris Werb

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 1229 PM

The Martlet thingy looks OK, but (for a lot more money), surface launched Brimstone looks to be a lot more effective if less flexible. 

 

I thought the Americans were going to be using MMW HELLFIRE on LCS in a similar role?

 

Also, the Type 23s are getting CAMM which has an advertised anti surface role which was initially not funded by the RN, but at least one subsequent leak suggests the UK MoD has funded the software upgrade.

 

Stuart, it's funny you should mention Harpoon. A couple of years back I visited HMS Duncan in port here in Orkney. The whole thing was shiny and new looking apart from the Harpoon launchers which were incongruously rusty. That was at a time when Harpoon was on the way out. ISTR it got a stay of execution.


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#585 Mighty_Zuk

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 1334 PM

The Harpoons are paid for and old. They're going to be wasted by EOD sooner or later anyway, and shipboard Harpoons are of little use against other navies.


They can be reused as land attack cruise missiles. Wasting them on boats would be... wasteful.
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#586 Chris Werb

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 1341 PM

 

The Harpoons are paid for and old. They're going to be wasted by EOD sooner or later anyway, and shipboard Harpoons are of little use against other navies.


They can be reused as land attack cruise missiles. Wasting them on boats would be... wasteful.

 

 

Wasteful and possibly futile. I'm guessing they probably have an excessive minimum range and the seeker is probably set up to disregard anything FIAC sized anyway. I think our missiles are probably almost if not completely life expired unless they've been refurbed by Boeing at some point. They would need conversion to land attack configuration, but land attack capable Harpoons are only advertised as capable of taking out littoral targets and the combination of a 500lb warhead and GPS/INS guidance with no terminal seeker for land targets isn't great. A nice secondary capability to have for some targets of opportunity, but not a serious land attack missile.


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#587 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 1342 PM

The Martlet thingy looks OK, but (for a lot more money), surface launched Brimstone looks to be a lot more effective if less flexible. 

 

I thought the Americans were going to be using MMW HELLFIRE on LCS in a similar role?

 

Also, the Type 23s are getting CAMM which has an advertised anti surface role which was initially not funded by the RN, but at least one subsequent leak suggests the UK MoD has funded the software upgrade.

 

Stuart, it's funny you should mention Harpoon. A couple of years back I visited HMS Duncan in port here in Orkney. The whole thing was shiny and new looking apart from the Harpoon launchers which were incongruously rusty. That was at a time when Harpoon was on the way out. ISTR it got a stay of execution.

 

Thats right, I remember you saying. I believe thats called MOD value for money. :) Or previously enjoyed depending on how you look at it.

 

 

Britain sends 3rd warship to the Gulf. Gee, the Royal Navy never got such good seatime. :)

https://www.express....update-hms-kent

 

I also heard on CNN there are reports Iran may have seized another tanker, a Panamanian flagged one. No further news as yet.


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#588 DB

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 0320 AM

The MoD maintains that Duncan isn't reinforcement, but is instead part of the planned deployment.

https://www.gov.uk/g...nce-in-the-gulf

Note that the articles state that Kent is to go out in Autumn. Also they note that Duncan is there whilst Montrose gets maintenance and a crew change.

Obviously these activities are pre-planned, but with two ships present the RN is much better placed if things escalate.

Given that Montrose is on a 3 year deployment, Kent does look like reinforcement.
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#589 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 0327 AM

Its kinda worrying its going to take till the autumn till they are ready to deploy. Or is it more a case of having to stand up a ship that can act as channel guard, so they can displace Kent?


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#590 DB

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 0500 AM

Well, if they brought forward Duncan's deployment as has been suggested they did, and extend that deployment beyond Montrose's downtime, then they've improved the situation already.

We'll know things are serious if they announce an exercise including some RAF involvement.
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#591 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 0747 AM

I cant see them approving anything like that till after the leadership contest though. But yes, that would be a likely move.

 

Looks like the speculation about Iran seizing another tanker was correct.

 

https://www.telegrap...il-tanker-gulf/

Iran has seized a foreign tanker it says was smuggling fuel in the Gulf.

The vessel, which state TV claimed was smuggling fuel to foreign customers, was intercepted south of Iran's Larak Island in the strategic Strait of Hormuz on Sunday and its 12 crew members arrested.

The seized vessel - an oil tanker based in the United Arab Emirates traveling through the Strait - drifted off into Iranian waters and stopped transmitting its location over two days ago.

US officials have expressed suspicion that the Panamanian-flagged oil tanker Riah had been seized in Iranian territorial waters. 

Iran said it responded to a distress call from the Riah, based in the UAE, and came to its rescue. But no other nation has reported receiving a distress call from the Riah, which was seen being escorted by Iranian naval vessels after the transponder that automatically reports its location was switched off on Saturday. 

The tracking report of the Panamanian ship MT Riah from MarineTraffic.com showed the vessel began its journey near a port off the coast of Dubai in the UAE on July 5.


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#592 Nobu

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 0955 AM

They certainly learn fast.

 

I would suspect the obsolescence of their technology that they put on display every so often may be contrived in various ways.


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#593 Daan

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 1006 AM

This is simply Iran attacking one of the weak links of the international oil trade: Panamanian-flagged vessels. If this act does not produce the desired results on the oil markets or western capitals, watch for more such tankers suddenly needing assistance or deemed to be 'smuggling' oil.


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#594 Josh

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 1011 AM

This will keep happening until the US bombs something. Iran is trying to provoke a response and be seen as a victim.
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#595 Colin

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 1108 AM

Apparently it was smuggling fuel out of Iran, which leads me to believe they did not pay of the right people.


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#596 Harold Jones

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 1203 PM

Apparently it was smuggling fuel out of Iran, which leads me to believe they did not pay of the right people.

Or they didn't stay bought.  


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#597 Tim the Tank Nut

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 1431 PM

either way Iran continues to be Iran.

 

This may spell the end of the Panamanian flag conceit.  At some point tankers are going to have to know that they can get through.

Lucky for the US the President isn't likely to give Iran their war under the current circumstances.

Each day I think our hand strengthens while theirs weakens.

 

As the US is a net exporter we no longer lose out so much when oil goes up.  It still sucks as high oil prices give other nations more money to make trouble with but "drill, baby drill" was the right prescription for a host of issues.


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#598 Colin

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 1606 PM

Higher oil costs is good for US shale producers, increases the margins in a tight business.


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#599 Chris Werb

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 1643 PM

Is killing a drone at sea via ECM a first for the USN, or indeed for the World?


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#600 Colin

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 1729 PM

How does one tell a drone to "Stand down"?


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