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Because The United Kingdom?


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#4401 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted Yesterday, 09:30 AM

One of my ancestors was an American. They emigrated from Germany by way of England, supposedly due to religious persecution. And they settled in America, If I remember rightly the latter half of the 17th Century. They married into a Local Mohawk tribe near New York. Then one of them came to Britain and settled. So you have to ask the question, if Britain and its monarchy was so authoritarian, why were people coming back from America to the Uk? Because, like much else of early America, its probably a myth.

 

Im sure the crafts guilds in England were another reason for emigration. But it illustrates, economic migration is really nothing new.


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#4402 DB

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Posted Yesterday, 11:33 AM

When did they leave Germany, were they hoping to stay here, when did they move on to the US and when did they return to the UK?
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#4403 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted Yesterday, 02:06 PM

It was a bit later than I thought, they were Palantines, which   would place them as having emigrated about 1710.

https://en.wikipedia...erman_Palatines

Hilarious to read that, because clearly Westminster concerns about immigration from Europe are nothing new. :D

 

I never gave it a thought before, but this was due to the war of Spanish succession. I was watching Simon Seebag Montefiore's programe on Vienna, and its fascinating to think some of my relatives were caught up in that war.

 

I dont know when their decendent (it may have been more than one, im not sure) came back, but Im pretty certain it was before before US independence.  Another branch stayed, and the subsquent history of them was pretty interesting for my mother to track. One of them ended up fighting at Gettysburg.


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#4404 rmgill

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Posted Yesterday, 06:09 PM

One of my ancestors was an American. They emigrated from Germany by way of England, supposedly due to religious persecution. And they settled in America, If I remember rightly the latter half of the 17th Century. They married into a Local Mohawk tribe near New York. Then one of them came to Britain and settled. So you have to ask the question, if Britain and its monarchy was so authoritarian, why were people coming back from America to the Uk? Because, like much else of early America, its probably a myth.


Wait, now you're questioning the reasons why folks even left the UK at all?

Do I need to explain some more of our mutual history to you?

What was the Declaration of Indulgences again?

You'll find a lot of Europeans came to the US because they were tired of being caught up in European wars. My own ancestors from Pomerania/Prussia were one such group.
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#4405 Panzermann

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Posted Yesterday, 10:22 PM

 

One of my ancestors was an American. They emigrated from Germany by way of England, supposedly due to religious persecution. And they settled in America, If I remember rightly the latter half of the 17th Century. They married into a Local Mohawk tribe near New York. Then one of them came to Britain and settled. So you have to ask the question, if Britain and its monarchy was so authoritarian, why were people coming back from America to the Uk? Because, like much else of early America, its probably a myth.


Wait, now you're questioning the reasons why folks even left the UK at all?

Do I need to explain some more of our mutual history to you?

What was the Declaration of Indulgences again?

You'll find a lot of Europeans came to the US because they were tired of being caught up in European wars. My own ancestors from Pomerania/Prussia were one such group.

 

 

"it's the economy, stupid" ;)

 

Yes, of course people were fed up with the wars, but also a big driver was economic possibilites they did not have at home. Either being the thrid son or something or the area they were living in was so crowded (farming takes lots of space) that there were no opportunities. Hence the many german settlers taking up the offers to settle in Romania, Russia etc. And then later America and Canada. Same goes for other settelr waves like the irish leaving Ireland after the famine, italians emigrating to north and south america around 1900 etc. these waves were very often preceded by crisis of some sort. When diverging religious ideas came into the mix it made moving more pressing (or more attractive) I think.

 

 

Stuart's american ancestor migrating to England is a case of exception proving the rule I think. Just look at the numbers migrating into which direction.


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#4406 rmgill

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Posted Today, 12:52 AM

Ill admit militant socialism is a threat. Why do you think I, a nominal socialist in leaning, refuses to vote for Jeremy Corbyn? But in your bland world everyone is in two opposing camps,


Things tend to align with them vs us but I don't see it that way. I do however think there's little to commend socialism writ large. Wan to team up with 30 hippy dippy people, knock yourself out, feel free to knock half the girls up. No skin off my nose. Just don't expect me to pay for your fun.


Throttled in its crib, read the source above, it was 100 years ago, straight after a world war.


Exactly. You also didn't have universal suffrage until 1918. As in Not even all Adult men could vote before then (let alone women which was sort of a new thing). You didn't even expect that all of your citizens had rights until that same time frame.
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#4407 rmgill

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Posted Today, 12:56 AM

Economy matters. Its the icing on the cake. But don't worry about your beard if you head is gonna get chopped off.

For example not having all of the males of your family conscripted to be sent off to fight the French in yet another war across the continent (Franco Prussian War) is a strong driver. That's what drove my Schimmelfennig ancestors from Prussia.

An EX GF's family, Weidenbach left Germany because things one of the family member had written about the Kaiser made life hard for the whole family.
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#4408 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted Today, 03:05 AM

 

 

One of my ancestors was an American. They emigrated from Germany by way of England, supposedly due to religious persecution. And they settled in America, If I remember rightly the latter half of the 17th Century. They married into a Local Mohawk tribe near New York. Then one of them came to Britain and settled. So you have to ask the question, if Britain and its monarchy was so authoritarian, why were people coming back from America to the Uk? Because, like much else of early America, its probably a myth.


Wait, now you're questioning the reasons why folks even left the UK at all?

Do I need to explain some more of our mutual history to you?

What was the Declaration of Indulgences again?

You'll find a lot of Europeans came to the US because they were tired of being caught up in European wars. My own ancestors from Pomerania/Prussia were one such group.

 

 

"it's the economy, stupid" ;)

 

Yes, of course people were fed up with the wars, but also a big driver was economic possibilites they did not have at home. Either being the thrid son or something or the area they were living in was so crowded (farming takes lots of space) that there were no opportunities. Hence the many german settlers taking up the offers to settle in Romania, Russia etc. And then later America and Canada. Same goes for other settelr waves like the irish leaving Ireland after the famine, italians emigrating to north and south america around 1900 etc. these waves were very often preceded by crisis of some sort. When diverging religious ideas came into the mix it made moving more pressing (or more attractive) I think.

 

 

Stuart's american ancestor migrating to England is a case of exception proving the rule I think. Just look at the numbers migrating into which direction.

 

 

I dont know, particularly in the early days when things were damn hard. There were apparently an influx of Americans that came to fight in the English civil war. For Parliament, natch. Presumably they did not all return home, even those that were uninjured.

 

But regardless, I think we have established that all the early Americans leaving Europe to escape monarchial  despotism is a lot of bunk. They left for a lot of reasons, yes, certainly  including that, but it wasnt the primary driver. They left for precisely the same reasons the Mexicans are desperate to cross the border, economic betterment. The same reason Europeans come here for that matter.


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#4409 BansheeOne

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Posted Today, 04:22 AM

People came back from America all the time because the situation back home had improved for them, they couldn't make it in the New World (or in fact they had made it big and could afford to return in a grand way), or they were plain homesick. It was probably a miniscule share of all emigrants, but not unusual. Donald Trump's grandfather Frederick wanted to return to Germany because of his wife he had married on a trip back home, but got denied the German citizenship he had lost in the meantime on the suspicion that he originally went to the US to evade conscription (though the relevant law was apparently only introduced after he left). So he told them to go piss up a rope, and the rest, as they say, is history.
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#4410 Rick

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Posted Today, 04:40 AM

Moving for economic reasons is also happening inside the U.S. ie people leaving California for other states. 


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