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India Wants Us Naval Guns?


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#21 R011

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 1455 PM


The 155mm guns on the new Zumwalt class DDG's seem to be pretty much dead weight since their guided rounds priced themselves out of existence. 

They can use Excalibur or similar if they want an off the shelf solution.

No. The ammunition shares only diameter with land service 155 mm. It would be like using 7.62 Tokarev in an MAG.
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#22 shep854

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 1504 PM

And the Navy is not about to let a Zumwalt (apt name; Elmo was big on new, whiz-band ideas.  Kind of like a naval MacNamara) anywhere near conventional artillery range of a landing beach, so, no conventional bombardment.

Reviving or navalizing the 6"/155mm for a shipboard gun is still a nice thought, though. 8" even better, but ammo is no longer made.


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#23 R011

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 2128 PM

A naval 155 mm would cost a lot to develop and offer few advantages over existing and well supported 127 mm guns. A navalized HIMARS/MLRS would probably be a better candidate for improved naval fire support.
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#24 KV7

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 0756 AM

And the Navy is not about to let a Zumwalt (apt name; Elmo was big on new, whiz-band ideas.  Kind of like a naval MacNamara) anywhere near conventional artillery range of a landing beach, so, no conventional bombardment.

Reviving or navalizing the 6"/155mm for a shipboard gun is still a nice thought, though. 8" even better, but ammo is no longer made.

Yes - I mean if they wanted to add a shore bombardment capacity the cheap and cheerful way to do would be to adapt an extant land system and put it on a smaller and simpler ship - LCS would have made much more sense. And on this class of ship the gun actually has a useful anti-shipping capability, because you can perhaps imagine it mixing with patrol or missile boats, whereas if you are using what is basically a cruiser to engage enemy shipping with a gun something has gone wrong.

 


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#25 shep854

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 0833 AM

I keep thinking there ought to be a way to plonk M109 turrets onto ships, with appropriate corrosion protection.  Stab aboard a constantly moving ship would be a challenge, of course.


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#26 Panzermann

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 0930 AM

I keep thinking there ought to be a way to plonk M109 turrets onto ships, with appropriate corrosion protection.  Stab aboard a constantly moving ship would be a challenge, of course.

 

You want MONARC (Modular Naval Artillery Concept)

 

There were two test series done. One with a full grown PzH200 strapped to the helipad of the frigate Hessen:

17201662va.jpg

 

and the turret only mounted on the foredeck of the Hamburg:

 

 

MONARC_Hamburg_Frigate_System.jpg

 

 

in the end they went with the new OTO Breda 127 mm/L64 light weight gun system. (I think now part of Leonardo). a purpose desinged naval cannon.


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#27 GARGEAN

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 0953 AM

I keep thinking there ought to be a way to plonk M109 turrets onto ships, with appropriate corrosion protection.  Stab aboard a constantly moving ship would be a challenge, of course.

There were suggestions about mounting original double-barreled 2S35 turret on some ships, for ex planned Lider-class...
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#28 JWB

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 1201 PM

I keep thinking there ought to be a way to plonk M109 turrets onto ships, with appropriate corrosion protection.  Stab aboard a constantly moving ship would be a challenge, of course.

M109 would allow guided projectiles eliminating the need for stab. 

Plus this:

http://raytheon.medi...sed-application


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#29 Rick

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 1219 PM

 

I keep thinking there ought to be a way to plonk M109 turrets onto ships, with appropriate corrosion protection.  Stab aboard a constantly moving ship would be a challenge, of course.

 

You want MONARC (Modular Naval Artillery Concept)

 

There were two test series done. One with a full grown PzH200 strapped to the helipad of the frigate Hessen:

17201662va.jpg

 

and the turret only mounted on the foredeck of the Hamburg:

 

 

MONARC_Hamburg_Frigate_System.jpg

 

 

in the end they went with the new OTO Breda 127 mm/L64 light weight gun system. (I think now part of Leonardo). a purpose desinged naval cannon.

 

For those of you who know such things, didn't the U.S. Army have 8" howitzers? Would the space, weight, and recoil forces be about the same as the 6"( rounded off) gun in the photos?


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#30 Dawes

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 1400 PM

The US Navy actually tested an 8 inch gun on a DD, but it never progressed beyond the trial stage:

 

http://www.navweaps....S_8-55_mk71.php


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#31 shep854

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 1719 PM

The US Navy actually tested an 8 inch gun on a DD, but it never progressed beyond the trial stage:

 

http://www.navweaps....S_8-55_mk71.php

As the article said, it was successful, but budget...a resurrection would be wonderful, but the problems with restarting 8" ammo production may be a deal-killer.

The US Army 8" howitzer is long out of service, so any remaining ammo is probably getting dangerously old--for Western forces, anyway...


Edited by shep854, 23 November 2019 - 1726 PM.

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#32 KV7

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 1804 PM

If you really want long range, fire a 155 mm shell out of a ~ 203mm barrel at 1100 m/s or so. All you need is a generic sabot.


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#33 Nobu

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 1341 PM

Nothing about this purchase seems beyond the actual technical capabilities of India and Indians.

 

Many things about this purchase appear designed to fly underneath the audit radar.


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#34 EchoFiveMike

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 1531 PM

Probably some quid pro quo for more H1B invasion.  S/F....Ken M


Edited by EchoFiveMike, 24 November 2019 - 1531 PM.

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#35 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 0317 AM

 

 

I keep thinking there ought to be a way to plonk M109 turrets onto ships, with appropriate corrosion protection.  Stab aboard a constantly moving ship would be a challenge, of course.

 

You want MONARC (Modular Naval Artillery Concept)

 

There were two test series done. One with a full grown PzH200 strapped to the helipad of the frigate Hessen:

17201662va.jpg

 

and the turret only mounted on the foredeck of the Hamburg:

 

 

MONARC_Hamburg_Frigate_System.jpg

 

 

in the end they went with the new OTO Breda 127 mm/L64 light weight gun system. (I think now part of Leonardo). a purpose desinged naval cannon.

 

For those of you who know such things, didn't the U.S. Army have 8" howitzers? Would the space, weight, and recoil forces be about the same as the 6"( rounded off) gun in the photos?

 

 

 

BAE has done a design study to use the same gun from the AS90 on the Type45's. It seems unlikely there will ever be funding (or need) to do it though.


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#36 Rick

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 0354 AM

A barge with several SPG or rocket launchers with the appropriate fire control and we have a bombardment craft.


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#37 JWB

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 1233 PM

A barge with several SPG or rocket launchers with the appropriate fire control and we have a bombardment craft.

https://en.wikipedia...ki/Arsenal_ship


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#38 CaptLuke

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Posted 27 November 2019 - 1147 AM

 

I keep thinking there ought to be a way to plonk M109 turrets onto ships, with appropriate corrosion protection.  Stab aboard a constantly moving ship would be a challenge, of course.

M109 would allow guided projectiles eliminating the need for stab. 

Plus this:

http://raytheon.medi...sed-application

 

 

I think that it makes more sense to go the other way: leverage existing, long range and guided 127mm ammunition and then sabot it out to 155mm to get the longest production runs that are practical.

 

VULCANO 127mm available rounds are:
  • Ballistic Extended Range (BER) unguided multirole ammunition with multi function programmable fuze;
  • Guided Long Range (GLR)ammunition with IR sensor for anti-ship role;
  • Guided Long Range (GLR)ammunition with IMU+GPS autonomous guidance for precise NFS actions (a Semi Active Laser sensor can be fitted as option).

BAE is saying they can get 90km for the guided range from existing 127/64 LW and Mk 45 mounts and potentially over a hundred km firing from the M109 ECRA.

 

The whole era of limited production run, specialized guns is over: R&D, now for ammo in addition to the gun system itself, is a chore and we've seen over and over how low production run, high tech weapons just death spiral into nothing.


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