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Kerbal Space Program


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#21 seahawk

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 0355 AM

Got it too. That is lots of fun.


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#22 BansheeOne

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 0900 AM

I have found that the problems in switching back to the space center are indeed due to leaving ships throttled up. Which is smart from a flight safety point of view, but also mildly annoying as I currently have a fleet of five ion-driven "Zapper"* probes underway. Those have 22 engines each, powered by 24 large and 12 small solar arrays plus assorted RTGs, and actually manage a meaningful acceleration (escape from Kerbin after just two revolutions in orbit).

 

However, they are more like sailing ships in that there is an optimal "sailing point", with the sun a couple degrees off their roll axis giving optimal energy flux. There's no burning for a couple seconds or minutes, then turning up time warp; you may thrust for a half or full hour at a time. I'm confident to visit every single body in the solar system with them, though.

 

The real challenge was bringing the increasingly heavy and unwieldy probes of the series into orbit - the last one required a four-and-a-half-stage Zeus-D* carrier with a twin-nuclear engine final stage and struts supporting the outreaching girders which mount the radial solar panels. I also need a bigger graphics card again already ...

 

* I have developed my own naming conventions. My first rocket design in the demo version was designated Athena, followed by the triangular Triton and the Hera moon rocket. My current standard carrier is the Zeus developed from the initial pay-version model Rhea, though I also have the experimental Hermes with air-breathing first stage and am working on the Kronos for heavy planetary landers.

 

My first munar lander design was named Crasher during trials for obvious reasons, which has since evolved into the nuclear-powered Radiator for (as of yet untried) planetary landings. Then there are the Kaputnik and Exploder landing probes, the latter developed into the re-entry-capable Reexploder, and the Collider rover probe. I also have the experimental Truckinator manned rover-ship standing around, but that is more of an aberration, basically a direct-landing Mk 1 command pod with truck wheels  ...


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#23 BansheeOne

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 0811 AM

You'll never get a 40-ton tanker truck to Minmus, they said. And why would you, they said. Watch me, I said. I'm gonna refuel my interplanetary flights without all the hassle of orbital maneuvring, I said.

 

screenshot146q.png


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#24 Simon Tan

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 0931 AM

I am playing a far less technical game called Stardrive in beta. It is pretty fun......


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#25 Fritz

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 0940 AM

Stardrive is a completely different game, it's a 4X strategy game, whereas this one is, from what I've read here, a space program simulator. You don't get to build space battleships and conquer the galaxy. ;)

 

... yet? ;)


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#26 BansheeOne

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 0955 AM

Let's say that fighting space battles in KSP would require a lot of effort unless they introduce missile seeker heads. Hm, a challenge for modders! :D

 

Plus of course it's currently single human player only, though you hear rumors of future cooperative mode implementation.


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#27 rmgill

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 1033 AM

Banshee, why spend the Delta Vee landing when you can just tweak the orbit with RCS and dock to refuel? 


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#28 BansheeOne

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 1231 PM

Because I can! And more importantly, because I cannot yet even translate a tug from one end of a tanker stage to the other without drifting off kilometers in orbit.

 

Obviously I spend about 500-600 m/s of delta-v for the stop at Minmus that would bring me well on my way to Eve or Duna. However, my ultimate goal is dropping the tanker trucks onto the target planet parallel to the lander to refuel before take-off for the return flight while keeping rockets to a manageable size.


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#29 rmgill

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 1236 PM

Because I can! And more importantly, because I cannot yet even translate a tug from one end of a tanker stage to the other without drifting off kilometers in orbit.

 

Obviously I spend about 500-600 m/s of delta-v for the stop at Minmus that would bring me well on my way to Eve or Duna. However, my ultimate goal is dropping the tanker trucks onto the target planet parallel to the lander to refuel before take-off for the return flight while keeping rockets to a manageable size.


So you're having issues with RCS translation and docking? 


Are you using any instrumentation packages like Mech Jeb? 

IS your RCS balanced on your craft? To get good RCS translation you REALLY need your docking stage to be balanced. Either perfectly balanced RCS on the edges OR 4 RCS quads on your Center of Mass of that stage. 

 


Edited by rmgill, 15 April 2013 - 1238 PM.

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#30 Fritz

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 1244 PM

I really wish I had the time to play this game...


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#31 rmgill

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 1254 PM


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#32 rmgill

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 1259 PM


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#33 BansheeOne

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 0759 AM


Are you using any instrumentation packages like Mech Jeb? 

IS your RCS balanced on your craft? To get good RCS translation you REALLY need your docking stage to be balanced. Either perfectly balanced RCS on the edges OR 4 RCS quads on your Center of Mass of that stage.

 

I'm running vanilla 0.19.1 as I want to keep it plain for the moment. No problems with RCS balancing, I just have not trained docking a lot or even dealt with the docking control screen much; watched my brother doing it and tried a bit myself, but my style of flying by the seat of my pants and visual references isn't really conductive to this. I'm more one for design challenges than maneuvring challenges, which means I tend to throw technology at a problem; hence the tanker trucks.

 

I'll have to learn docking eventually of course; already learned landing by instruments after all. Thanks for the video links, I'll look at these.


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#34 rmgill

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 0915 AM

The key thing is being in target mode with the target port selected. Then you line your Centerline V on the nav ball up with the circle of the target. There's a velocity indicator that'll float around the target indicating your general vector in relation to the target. That is the key piece for getting lined up and knowing how you're doing for your move toward or away from the port in question. 

Also, be sure to figure out precision mode for controls. Your control indicators should turn blue when in precision mode and in that mode they offer smaller levels of control authority that increases with a slower rate per unit time as you effect that control movement. 


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#35 BansheeOne

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 0832 AM

Okay, by now I intercept targets in orbit easily. Still working on the last meters of docking. Figures, I suck at parallel parking too.

 

Meanwhile, ion-driven greetings from Jool orbit. P.S.: Don't aerobrake below 110 km altitude in this big boy's atmosphere.

 

screenshot230.png


screenshot245c.png
 


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#36 rmgill

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 1026 AM

Post a picture of your craft you're docking with so we can see your RCS layout. 


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#37 BansheeOne

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 1128 AM

Voilá. This is my Radiator lander, a necessarily bulky design because it's meant for all-up missions to Duna and Eve. Not much of a problem; it has two groups of RCS clusters on either end, the upper just below the command pod and the lower on the fairing of the return transtage nuclear engine, plus another group on the tanks of the planetary stage at the center of gravity to assist in translation. Maneuverability is actually quite good.

 

screenshot158e.png


screenshot159u.png


screenshot160x.png
 

What threw me early on was that the clusters are mounted at 45 degrees on the roll axis because the crew ladder runs straight down the zenith side of the ship, so it's hard to make out visually which direction they are firing in 90-degree translation maneuvers. However, that was resolved when I configured joystick controls for translation in the docking screen and no longer needed to fiddle with pushing buttons on my old Logitech Attack 3.

 

As you see, I have no problems getting within a couple meters of the target. The ship's docking port is also on the bottom because the top is occupied by the command pod parachute, and the upper part of the tanker stage with another nuclear engine is actually meant to be mated to the lander whole and act as a transfer stage to the target planet; but backward parking is no big procedural problem either.

 

The thing is I still relied on visual observation in my last attempt, and only after I had blown off too much monoprop for another successful attempt I realized how you can steer in translation mode by the target symbol on the navball, too. I'll try that next, but went for some unmanned planetary missions to scout the terrain for future landings in between.


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#38 rmgill

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 1343 PM

Right click your docking port for control from here. Also, right click the port you're targeting and select that as the target. Then your controls will function with the tail of the craft as your forward view. RCS Translate forwards will be craft aft. This will also give you reference of movement for both the target icon and your velocity vector in the nav-ball. 

Also, the lower left hand corner of the screen gives you the RCS/Translation controls independent of main engines. This allows you to select between attitude control and translation. 

Setup right, you can have SAS turned on and hit a key to move to attidue control mode and then back to translate with SAS turned back on. The lower left has three modes, Launch/Main engine staging, RCS and then overall orbital map view (also accessed with M). 


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#39 Rickard N

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 1258 PM

I got this while I was in the hospital earlier. This is so much fun and frustration combined I can't believe it. The thing I like most is the physics which must be pretty accurate :)

 

/R - trying to get to Mun...


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#40 BansheeOne

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 1402 PM

You don't know frustration until you have landed a Kerbalnaut on Eve - and try to get him back up against high gravity and atmospheric density. I tried with my Radiator lander first which actually had proven overdesigned for Duna but got only a couple klicks off the Eve surface. So I went back to my quicksave point in Orbit and designed the Brute lander.

 

kh1i.png

 

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9sya.png

 

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pmtn.png

 

1tjm.png

Looks unstoppable, right? So I thought too, and quicksaved after touchdown (since landing this thing is a little ... difficile). Except it doesn't get anywhere near orbit from Eve either. So I'm currently designing a massive winged rescue ship intended to water-land (or whatever those Eve oceans are made of), embark my stranded Kerbalnaut after ballistically flying out to it, then hopefully make use of the dense atmosphere to ascend back into orbit.

 

As Plan C, I have already built a habitat to drop for my man to settle down on the planet ...


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