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#61 EchoFiveMike

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Posted 15 December 2018 - 1000 AM

There was some asshole on here, damned if I recall who, suggesting a short tube 155 for general support at battalion or bde combat team level over a decade ago.

 

I like long ranged tube artillery, but if you're all stuck on stupid WRT fighting the mythical Soviets in some Gotterdamerung, you might want to figure out how you're going to call for fire in an intense ECM/ECCM environment.   You retrans stations are going to get pounded, and point to point with VHF isn't going to fly at 30+km ranges, especially with jamming. So now you're looking at HF(sucks) or satcomm, which also sucks for different reasons.  Having your firesupport range roughly mirror your comms range is probably a thing to consider.  S/F....Ken M 


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#62 Chris Werb

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Posted 15 December 2018 - 1103 AM

There was some asshole on here, damned if I recall who, suggesting a short tube 155 for general support at battalion or bde combat team level over a decade ago.

 

I like long ranged tube artillery, but if you're all stuck on stupid WRT fighting the mythical Soviets in some Gotterdamerung, you might want to figure out how you're going to call for fire in an intense ECM/ECCM environment.   You retrans stations are going to get pounded, and point to point with VHF isn't going to fly at 30+km ranges, especially with jamming. So now you're looking at HF(sucks) or satcomm, which also sucks for different reasons.  Having your firesupport range roughly mirror your comms range is probably a thing to consider.  S/F....Ken M 

 

What concerns me most, regardless of range, is that the AO is likely to be crawling with "tourists" and "reporters" with binoculars, satphones with GPS and even drones, that, under likely RoE, won't even be arrested, let alone shot. If every time anything you have stops in one place for more than 10 minutes, it gets shelled, considerations about the maximum range of whatever artillery you have become moot.


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#63 Dawes

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Posted 15 December 2018 - 1212 PM

IIRC, during the 2003 Iraq invasion, some US Army types got into hot water for firing at a reflection that they saw in the upper window of a building, believing that it could be the optic of a rifle or guided weapon of some type. It turned out to be a foreign TV crew (French?) and some of them were killed/injured.


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#64 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 15 December 2018 - 1452 PM

Al Jazeera IIRC. There was some rejoicing on here at the time best I can recall.


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#65 Chris Werb

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Posted 15 December 2018 - 1607 PM

The thing is, if we get our own shit together on the ECM/ECCM front, the same applies to networking by the potential peer enemy. There are things that can be done. Repeaters can be made small, mobile, mounted on drones, placed among decoys etc. Use can be made of burst, LPI and frequency agile transmission, though all have limitations. The British Army have been placing antennae far away from comms vehicles and CPs as far back as the 1950s. As I see it, expendable repeaters getting destroyed is less of a problem than the enemy DFing the originator of the call for fire. Things like blue force tracking could potentially make an enemy's job a lot easier.
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#66 Dawes

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Posted 15 December 2018 - 1631 PM

Supposedly, Russian battlefield EW/ECM capabilities are superior in many ways to those of NATO.


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#67 sunday

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Posted 15 December 2018 - 1749 PM

IIRC, during the 2003 Iraq invasion, some US Army types got into hot water for firing at a reflection that they saw in the upper window of a building, believing that it could be the optic of a rifle or guided weapon of some type. It turned out to be a foreign TV crew (French?) and some of them were killed/injured.

 

Spanish. The local anti-Americans are still milking that event.

 

https://en.wikipedia...iki/José_Couso


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#68 bd1

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 1101 AM

 

There was some asshole on here, damned if I recall who, suggesting a short tube 155 for general support at battalion or bde combat team level over a decade ago.

 

I like long ranged tube artillery, but if you're all stuck on stupid WRT fighting the mythical Soviets in some Gotterdamerung, you might want to figure out how you're going to call for fire in an intense ECM/ECCM environment.   You retrans stations are going to get pounded, and point to point with VHF isn't going to fly at 30+km ranges, especially with jamming. So now you're looking at HF(sucks) or satcomm, which also sucks for different reasons.  Having your firesupport range roughly mirror your comms range is probably a thing to consider.  S/F....Ken M 

 

What concerns me most, regardless of range, is that the AO is likely to be crawling with "tourists" and "reporters" with binoculars, satphones with GPS and even drones, that, under likely RoE, won't even be arrested, let alone shot. If every time anything you have stops in one place for more than 10 minutes, it gets shelled, considerations about the maximum range of whatever artillery you have become moot.

 

it depends. unoficcially there might have been incidents when estonian EDL members have met some over-enthusiastic non-native photographers in middle of forest roads after the said photographers followed the military colonnes and they have decided on spot to gift their cameras away. or drop on the road. or so i´ve been told. 


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#69 EchoFiveMike

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 1935 PM

I don't know what war zones ya'll have been in, but we killed anyone who looked like they were a F/O in the ones I've been.  To include early teenaged "kids."  Just like shitheads bringing their kids to invade, err "illegally immigrate" to another country, you play big boy games, you use big boy rules. 

 

There's a word for people more concern about the welfare of the enemy than the welfare of their own.  And there's an age old solution too.  S/F....Ken M


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#70 Simon Tan

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 2103 PM

6inch HE.
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#71 EchoFiveMike

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 0926 AM

Blue force tracker and all that crap is just the latest version of the command and conquer pogue mentality.  The same trash "leaders" who maneuvered their troops from helos in VN like some sort of sick live action chess game.  People without the moral courage to refuse to accept nonsensical metrics from politicians who are unwilling to do what is required to win wars.  How many officers resigned in protest during the pointless clownshoes fuckery of Vietnam?  How about Iraq?  Afghanistan?  We know what must be done, we just refuse to do it, and lie to ourselves about it, like the bum looking for his lost watch in the middle of the street, because the light is better there.  Servile egoists, rationalizing that somehow it's better to have the false sense of control being 'inside', and just coincidentally collecting a nice paycheck, instead of resigning.   

 

These same people think we're still in a conscript military with the spare manpower to waste on gun crews and manually doing crap that's been automated for decades in the civilian sector, where they have to pay some guy to do stupid drudge work.       

 

It takes basically the same # of people to crew a properly automated 155 as a 105.  It's a little more weight on ammo and powder, but for a properly motorized/mechanized force, it's trivial compared to the ongoing fuel,food,water, etc costs of supporting manpower.  Given the realities of Western manpower costs, we should be moving to heavier and heavier weapons and formations, and leaving this light infantry stuff for specialists.  Most any place where you need to fight as light infantry is fucking worthless, why are you fighting there?  Because you're stupid?  S/F....Ken M 


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#72 shep854

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 0950 AM

Truck-mounted SP arty seems to be the best balance of light weight and mobility:


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#73 lastdingo

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 1828 PM

Their crew is unprotected and the traverse is poor. Better than towed guns, though.
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#74 shep854

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 1955 PM

Their crew is unprotected and the traverse is poor. Better than towed guns, though.

Yep.  Tradeoffs and expected threats.


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#75 Simon Tan

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Posted 23 December 2018 - 0517 AM

Prestige and piss poor command.
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#76 Corinthian

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 2320 PM

From my ex-sailor understanding, U.S. artillery and doctrine was the best(?) in WW2. What has happened since then?


Reliance on airpower, gee whiz technology, and Congress swinging the budget axe.
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#77 Simon Tan

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 0702 AM

Taken for granted. Like a Corolla.
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