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Ajax Issues


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#1 Dawes

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Posted 05 June 2020 - 1522 PM

Some sort of mechanical problems?

 

https://www.janes.co...61-e7a41a7aa603


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#2 Interlinked

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Posted 05 June 2020 - 2005 PM

As usual, it was too good to be true for the British Army.
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#3 Ssnake

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Posted 06 June 2020 - 0145 AM

We're having production problems because we don't want to pay for extensive prototype trials. Somehow everybody thinks they can nail it on the first try when there's absolutely no supporting evidence, and an overwhelming number of cases that suggest otherwise. Do they believe that "everybody else is stupid", or is it the cynical approach that everybody knows that the deadlines will be busted, anyway. As long as the program milestones are set as unrealistic as they are at the beginning of military procurement processes, when you bid for a project you'll get kicked out if you don't participate in the charade, for not conforming to the RFQ when all your competitors submit their bids with unrealistic promises.


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#4 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 06 June 2020 - 0148 AM

Look at it as a positive. Rather than procuring something and ignoring problems with it for years (as the MOD did with SA80 and Chieftain), they seem to be grabbing the nettle, as they did with the Challenger 2 procurement, and demanding the manufacturers fix it. Which is how its supposed to work.

 

On the further positive side, we enthusiast's get to enjoy Scimitar a bit longer....


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#5 Dawes

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Posted 06 June 2020 - 1108 AM

This vehicle has received little attention in the media. No news was (presumably) good news?


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#6 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 06 June 2020 - 1351 PM

This is the first bad news I've heard of it.
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#7 DB

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 1512 PM

I am aghast.

 

It's well known everywhere that Lockheed Martin has had significant difficulties with both the WCSP and Ajax turrets - you don't normally expect the positive news for a turret that's not even in service yet to be that it's entering a reliability improvement programme when at that point they should have already been installing the bloody things.

 

Ajax has a number of issues beyond the turret, not least because the hull is built by GD Santa Barbara, and was supposed to be fully integrated there but politics moved that to Merthyr and left only the metal bending to the Spanish. Imagine how much care they have for something where most of the high value work was taken away.


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#8 RETAC21

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 0212 AM

I am aghast.

 

It's well known everywhere that Lockheed Martin has had significant difficulties with both the WCSP and Ajax turrets - you don't normally expect the positive news for a turret that's not even in service yet to be that it's entering a reliability improvement programme when at that point they should have already been installing the bloody things.

 

Ajax has a number of issues beyond the turret, not least because the hull is built by GD Santa Barbara, and was supposed to be fully integrated there but politics moved that to Merthyr and left only the metal bending to the Spanish. Imagine how much care they have for something where most of the high value work was taken away.

 

That is the kiss of death - Santa Barbara has been doing appalling work since the 80s with zero quality control as its products were then forced upon the Spanish Army, who had to suck up and smile, so they did as little as possible for as much as they could get. Getting them to build the Leopards required several years of wrestling between the Army, Krauss Maffei and the directors and the tank ended up overweight. Recently, the got kicked out of the wheeled APC replacement for the (museum pieces by now) BMR in a contract with no competitors, and the whole thing had to be restarted anew as they were unable to work with the other providers.


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#9 MikeKiloPapa

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 0415 AM

 

 

Recently, the got kicked out of the wheeled APC replacement for the (museum pieces by now) BMR in a contract with no competitors, and the whole thing had to be restarted anew as they were unable to work with the other providers.

 

Not anymore.....SBS is back in business with the Dragon VCR 8x8 (Piranha 5) : 

https://defbrief.com...dragon-program/

 

https://defpost.com/...cr-8x8-program/

 

Refusing SBS's original offer seemed like a pretty obvious atempt by the Spanish Army/ Spanish government to secure a better deal by forcing them to lower their bid. 


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#10 MikeKiloPapa

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 0419 AM

Wrt to the current AJAX debacle, if the current issues are wholly or partly a result of shoddy workmanship from SBS , there is always the option of having the AJAX hulls manufactured by Steyr in Austria in stead. AFAIK they built the Austrian armys Ulans and are known for excellent QC .


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#11 Simon Tan

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 0453 AM

Cmon...Magna Steyr or SEAT....sorry Spain is not culturally correct.
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#12 RETAC21

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 0511 AM

 

 

 

Recently, the got kicked out of the wheeled APC replacement for the (museum pieces by now) BMR in a contract with no competitors, and the whole thing had to be restarted anew as they were unable to work with the other providers.

 

Not anymore.....SBS is back in business with the Dragon VCR 8x8 (Piranha 5) : 

https://defbrief.com...dragon-program/

 

https://defpost.com/...cr-8x8-program/

 

Refusing SBS's original offer seemed like a pretty obvious atempt by the Spanish Army/ Spanish government to secure a better deal by forcing them to lower their bid. 

 

 

Money wasn't the issue as the budgets remains the same, the issue was around who should lead the program.

 

The main contractor was Indra (which is a systems company) but SBB would have nothing of it, not to speak about other providers (SAPA, Escribano) having input in the project, so the technology demostrator accumulated delay after delay (for example, the combat system was delivered a year ago, yet the prototype is still not ready). Eventually MOD had enough and ended the procurement contract as it was.

 

The rebooted version now has an independent corporation being set up to manage the whole thing, subcontracting the previous partners (much like Eurofighter GMBH) to see if finally they can move forward.

 

The cancellation justification was: The Program Office alleges that it does not meet the requirements of the Technical Specification Sheet (PTT), neither in the execution period nor in the number of prototypes and vehicles nor in the manufacturing order of the different configurations. There are also no financial guarantees that, in the event of any unforeseen event, it will not result in an increase in cost.


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#13 RETAC21

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 0517 AM

Cmon...Magna Steyr or SEAT....sorry Spain is not culturally correct.

 

 

SBB is the worse of the worst of the Spanish defence industry. 

 

It's in Spanish but google translate can probably work: https://ensantabarba...eptiembre-2010/


Edited by RETAC21, 09 June 2020 - 0517 AM.

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#14 Simon Tan

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 0632 AM

Sounds like SJWs


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#15 DB

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 0645 AM

I can't say more, but I think that there is enough wrong in the programme for the blame to be spread quite broadly.

Except the German winch design on the recovery variant. That's awesome.
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#16 bojan

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 0649 AM

...Except the German winch design on the recovery variant. That's awesome.

Like a local informal description of the ZIL-135 tank transporter - truck is pretty bad, but it's trailer is really good. :)


Edited by bojan, 09 June 2020 - 0649 AM.

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