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Knm Helge Ingstad Collision


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#21 Daan

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 1313 PM

From Aftenposten:

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Edited by Daan, 08 November 2018 - 1316 PM.

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#22 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 1326 PM

Looks like the Commercial vessel had her bow well out of the water. Probably just as well, if it was sitting lower it might have broke her back.


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#23 Ivanhoe

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 1329 PM


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#24 RETAC21

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 1330 PM

Damage is consistent with the bow of the tanker, with the bulbous bow making a huge gash below the waterline, causing the water ingress. Tanker needs not be badly damaged, but as the tide rises, the list in the frigate has gotten worse. It's bad but probably can be repaired.

 

2919510.jpg


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#25 Simon Tan

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 1847 PM

GRU tanker.


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#26 shep854

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 1853 PM

Yes, I see now.  Instead of a gash like a knife, the metal of the hull split from the impact force of the blunt bow.


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#27 Colin

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 0024 AM

Tanker was under tow as well at the time, but I also heard that the warship was stationery, so mistake by the tug?

Not tow, but escort, in tight places like that, the tanker may have the escort tug tethered to act as a brake or to take over steering if something goes wrong with the ship. Most of the LNG and oil projects I have reviewed will require escort tugs doing this.


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#28 BansheeOne

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 0350 AM

Yeah, as far as Google translates from Norwegian news reports, the tug was going behind the tanker on a slack line. There's no official confirmation of claims that the local traffic control center called the frigate twice to advise they were on a collision course, to which the reply was that they were in control of the situation. Uncertainty whether Ingstad's stealth features contributed to the accident. Apparently they only switched on their AIS after the collision, too.


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#29 RETAC21

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 0418 AM

Stealth features should be irrelevant if she was properly lighted. The fault here is clearly on the warship as the tanker was under the control of the traffic center and was the less maneuvrable vessel.


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#30 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 0419 AM

Im I the only one getting a Georg Thiele vibe from this wreck? I hope they manage to salvage her.


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#31 RETAC21

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 0427 AM

Should be salvageable with some effort


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#32 KV7

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 0537 AM

It looks like the captain stuffed up and/or had mechanical problems and did not want to own up to the problem, thus creating a much bigger one.


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#33 Yama

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 0627 AM

Salvageable for sure, but economically repairable? Not so certain. There were apparently some pressure to reduce the fleet (Finnish Navy actually studied buying some of them as one of the possibilities for fullfilling LV2020 requirement) and it is reported the fleet is suffering from chronic spares shortage.


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#34 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 0649 AM

Presumably there is a Helo on board as well?


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#35 DB

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 0718 AM

The DM reoprted that 10,000l of helo fuel had leaked, but I don't give much credence to the detail in DM reports, that nay be the total carried.
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#36 Chris Werb

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 0757 AM

The DM reoprted that 10,000l of helo fuel had leaked, but I don't give much credence to the detail in DM reports, that nay be the total carried.

 

10,000L really isn't a big deal. If it was in your local public swimming pool perhaps, but even in a decent sized fjord it wouldn't be much of a problem for long.


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#37 TonyE

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 0949 AM

Looks like the Commercial vessel had her bow well out of the water. Probably just as well, if it was sitting lower it might have broke her back.

 

The tanker has a massive anchor bulge on each side of the hull, appearently that was what caused the long gash in the hull of the frigate.

 

244f037967cb1bd02ef3714e31414a93.jpg


Edited by TonyE, 09 November 2018 - 1038 AM.

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#38 TonyE

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 0951 AM

Presumably there is a Helo on board as well?

 

(insert hilarious laughter)

The helicopter was supposed to be the NH-90, ordered 17 years ago and still not in active service. ^_^


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#39 TonyE

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 1011 AM

Salvageable for sure, but economically repairable? Not so certain. There were apparently some pressure to reduce the fleet (Finnish Navy actually studied buying some of them as one of the possibilities for fullfilling LV2020 requirement) and it is reported the fleet is suffering from chronic spares shortage.

 

The whole armed forces have been cronically mismanaged since 2001. We currently spend close to double what the finns do on defence yet the results are meager at best. There is very little in therms of spare parts available since such items have to be kept in storage and keeping storage cost a lot of rent, having to be paid at market prices back to the armed forces building bureau, which is then returned to the state coffers as income, it is basically a closed artifical circle economy. Everything has been drawn down and as long as the army could provide a few hundred men to Whereverstan, the navy could sail a few vessels as part of international missions and the air force could provide a flight of fighters for the same, everything else was left to wither and no one complained as interest in the armed forces was minimal until very recently. There is also a massive bureaucracy inherited from the past 17 years which continue to soak up defence funds like crazy. When the F-35 "Wunderwaffe" will be introduced in a few years, the navy will be cut back from 5 frigates, 6 FACs, 6 MCVs and 6 diesel submarines to 5 frigates and 4 subs. The current government is making some efforts to fix the problems, but it usually involves further cuts to the little that remains in order to fund what is to remain from that.

 

The best lessons that Finland can take from Norway and Sweden is to avoid doing anything that they have been doing.


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#40 Simon Tan

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 1053 AM

Jeez...GRU runs your MINDEF.
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