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New NK tank


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#21 DKTanker

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 1704 PM

What would that cylinder-like object be? (just to the left of the flagpole)
My friend who showed it to me speculated it might be a wind sensor but I find that highly doubtful.

Could well be a windsensor. It's as good a guess as any. BTW, why would you find it highly doubtful?
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#22 ShotMagnet

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 1731 PM

Am currently reading "The Dead Hand"

That's part of your problem.

The Mote in God's Eye was a far-superior read. You're unhappy that the sequel to TMIGE isn't half the book that the original is.

Instantiating threadjack in 3...2...1...


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#23 stimpy75

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 0310 AM

not much info on the new NK tank,but a nice interesting reading.....
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?162240-Bluffer-s-Guide-North-Korea-strikes!-(2009)
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#24 Jim Warford

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 2259 PM

So, what do we have here? Overall, this new tank looks like a hybrid design showing Russian, Chinese and even Romanian influences. While the relationship to the Chinese Type 85-II and the T-62-based Ch'onma (Ch'onma-ho III, M1992), is apparent, I think the Romanians had a hand in this as well. In some ways I'm surprised that the next North Korean tank doesn't look more like the Romanian T-72 copy, the TR-125 (time will tell). A couple of the images included in the Journal show the area on the glacis in front of the driver that resembles the Romanian TR-85M1 and TR-800 MBTs. Overall, the hull of the new tank looks a lot like one of those Romanian tank hulls. This new tank's add-on armor not only has a similar shape to the turret frontal armor of the Type 85-IIAP it also has a single lifting eye on the "face" that is very similar to the lifting eye arrangement of the Type 85-IIAP, AL Khalid, Type 88C, etc. This implies that the array can be removed and replaced if damaged, etc. In fact, the picture of tank #126 on page 9 of the Journal shows what could be a large (Israeli-looking) mounting bolt used to fasten the add-on armor array to the turret front. Although smaller and more numerous, the Type 85-IIAP and Type 88C use very similar visible bolts for the same purpose.

So, if these tanks are in fact the P'okpoong MBT, the early reports of a new North Korean tank based on the T-72 (at least externally), were way off the mark. Additionally, where is the still unseen "upgunned" Ch'onma variant that has been discussed by official sources and reported in various Defense White Papers over the years? These photos appear to show a tank that is still fitted with the 115mm main gun. IMO, these photos are of an upgraded Ch'onma III leaving the North Korean T-72-based tank still behind the curtain.

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By null at 2010-06-06
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#25 Archie Pellagio

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 0323 AM

The roadwheels look more like T62/64/80 than T72 with the uneven gap.
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#26 bojan

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 0642 AM

....A couple of the images included in the Journal show the area on the glacis in front of the driver that resembles the Romanian TR-85M1 and TR-800 MBTs...


One note - TR-85 series glacis armor is same as T-55 + BDD, just integrated and not add-on.
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#27 Jim Warford

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 2220 PM

One note - TR-85 series glacis armor is same as T-55 + BDD, just integrated and not add-on.


Bojan; do you have any more information regarding the glacis armor of the TR-85M1? Do you mean the armor provides the same level of protection or that the design is actually the same as BDD? There are published reports that state the Ch'onma III has additional armor on its glacis...maybe it's the same thing? Also, do you have any specifics regarding the turret add-on armor used on the TR-85M1? Thanks in advance...
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#28 bojan

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 0236 AM

Bojan; do you have any more information regarding the glacis armor of the TR-85M1? Do you mean the armor provides the same level of protection or that the design is actually the same as BDD?


Design is same as BDD. Front plate is ~50-60mm, and backup armor plate is ~100mm and between them is BDD like armor (ie metal plates in resin like material).

There are published reports that state the Ch'onma III has additional armor on its glacis...maybe it's the same thing?


I am not sure, but a theory is valid as any.

Also, do you have any specifics regarding the turret add-on armor used on the TR-85M1? Thanks in advance...


No. :(
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#29 Marcello

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 1303 PM

So, what do we have here? Overall, this new tank looks like a hybrid design showing Russian, Chinese and even Romanian influences. While the relationship to the Chinese Type 85-II and the T-62-based Ch'onma (Ch'onma-ho III, M1992), is apparent, I think the Romanians had a hand in this as well. In some ways I'm surprised that the next North Korean tank doesn't look more like the Romanian T-72 copy, the TR-125 (time will tell). A couple of the images included in the Journal show the area on the glacis in front of the driver that resembles the Romanian TR-85M1 and TR-800 MBTs. Overall, the hull of the new tank looks a lot like one of those Romanian tank hulls.This new tank's add-on armor not only has a similar shape to the turret frontal armor of the Type 85-IIAP it also has a single lifting eye on the "face" that is very similar to the lifting eye arrangement of the Type 85-IIAP, AL Khalid, Type 88C, etc. This implies that the array can be removed and replaced if damaged, etc.


There may well be design influences but also forms follows function. Just because the romanians and the north koreans came at superficially similar solutions it does not necessarily mean they copied it or they had someone on the design team. It might have happened or it might be a case of parallel development instead.


So, if these tanks are in fact the P'okpoong MBT, the early reports of a new North Korean tank based on the T-72 (at least externally), were way off the mark. Additionally, where is the still unseen "upgunned" Ch'onma variant that has been discussed by official sources and reported in various Defense White Papers over the years? These photos appear to show a tank that is still fitted with the 115mm main gun. IMO, these photos are of an upgraded Ch'onma III leaving the North Korean T-72-based tank still behind the curtain.


If one reads pre 1989 western sources on soviet tanks one finds a large number of mistakes, with completely different tanks being mixed up as versions of the same and so on. The sources we have on North Korea are the same which were available on the USSR: defectors, parade pictures etc.
It would be only be reasonable to expect similar mistakes from a place like North Korea.
What we have here is a tank with a different roadwheels configuration compared to a T-62. This indicates a new build rather than a simple upgrade of an existing vehicle. Wheel count is same as a T-72, so this might have prompted some speculation at some point in the rumor mill that it was T-72 based (and the details running against it were not picked up), which was then passed on as fact.
While they might certainly actually have others things such as T-72 based tanks or upgunned Ch'onma this vehicle seems a more straightforward and less challanging/disruptive development: increased protection and automotive improvements to compensate for the greater weight.
North Korea has not exactly been a tank development heaven for the last 15 years or so.

Edited by Marcello, 08 June 2010 - 1306 PM.

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#30 geronimo

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 0847 AM

The new tank as shown during today's parade in Pyongyang:

Posted Image
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#31 Guest_leopard2a5nl_*

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 0906 AM

Hi,

On the photo the first and second group are two different types. I don't dare to guess which types they are at the moment. ;)
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#32 Yalmuk

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 0923 AM

I don't know why, but i get "ukrainian vibes" from those tanks.
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#33 Damian

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 0953 AM

North Korean variation of T-62M with BDD armor?
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#34 Marek Tucan

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 1001 AM

Seems like it. The frontmost three have "things" on the lower part of the BDD, dunno what it is, but wold guesws it's not ERA.
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#35 Guest_JamesG123_*

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 1545 PM

Seems like it. The frontmost three have "things" on the lower part of the BDD, dunno what it is, but wold guesws it's not ERA.


Flexible HEAT detonator screens. Notice the lead tank's driver's head or hatch is holding the one above his head up.
'
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#36 JOE BRENNAN

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 1738 PM

Another angle, of a slightly different type of vehicle than the lead one in the other picture, without the screens, and smoke projector arrangement is different, at least. The sign appears similar though approx= 'enemy for whom the Korean people hold a deep rooted enmity-EXTINGUISH ALL THE AMERICAN IMPERIALIST AGGRESSORS!'. (not all that different from slogans on T-34's in 1950, for that matter ;) )

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Joe

Edited by JOE BRENNAN, 10 October 2010 - 1743 PM.

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#37 demosthenes

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 1940 PM

The 14.5mm KPV should come in handy against ROK M113s and helis. I wonder if they bumped up the rate of fire for the latter role?

Anyone else think that the tankers look like Cheburashka in those helmets?
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#38 Guest_JamesG123_*

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 2024 PM

The 14.5mm KPV should come in handy against ROK M113s and helis.


They wouldn't survive long enough to be used. Tanks and tank like targets would be the first thing (ok maybe second behind their air force) the NKs would run out of if things went hot.
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#39 demosthenes

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 2245 PM

They wouldn't survive long enough to be used. Tanks and tank like targets would be the first thing (ok maybe second behind their air force) the NKs would run out of if things went hot.



I know, why do they even bother trying to have an army at all? :rolleyes:

Look, I don't want to derail the topic, so all I'll say is neither of us, or anyone in the world for that matter, knows exactly how things will play out if the balloon goes up over the DMZ.

Back to the tank now.

Edited by demosthenes, 10 October 2010 - 2253 PM.

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#40 Jim Warford

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 2251 PM

The new tank as shown during today's parade in Pyongyang:

Posted Image


Awesome...just awesome. :D
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