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Mint Vs Ubuntu Vs Fedora Vs Debian Vs Opensuse Vs Others


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#201 Murph

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 0530 AM

Why does Slackware get the photo it does?  I know that they are very conservative, and the most POSIX compliant of the linux distributions, but does that make them any worse than Arch?


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#202 Ivanhoe

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 0601 AM

 

A bit dated


.. and yet the depictions for Fedora/CentOS, Ubuntu and Slackware are still amazingly accurate ;-)

 

 

Actually, IME the Fedora fanboys tend to be younger (you know, like in their 40s) and less corporate. There's a huge difference between Fedora fanboys and CentOS fanboys; Fedora fanboys wear Tux t-shirts, CentOS fanboys wear polo shirts.

 

Murph, the slam at the Slackware crowd is simply an illustration of the different mindsets. Enthusiast versus production sysop. The younger two decades of admins tend to have the "change is better!" thing going on. They get wound up about distros, desktop environments, etc. Older folks tend to want less admin drudgework, more stability, and its about the user application not the OS. 

 

For home use, to me its all about drivers and documentation. For work, its about security, stability, and uptime. When it comes to sysadminning, the people to whom I listen talk about uptime in terms of years, not days. 


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#203 TTK Ciar

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 1803 PM

Yeah, what he said.

Also, Slackware is the oldest surviving Linux distribution. Fair or not, that colors the way it's seen in mainstream youth-worshipping society.

 

That view is compounded by its tendency to package slightly older versions of its software and by the very real fact that the Slackware-using demographic is somewhat older.

There was a poll which illustrated that last bit on LinuxQuestions recently:
https://www.linuxque...ers-4175653164/

age_of_slackers.png

Regarding Fedora and CentOS:  Fair enough.  My interpretation of the picture was that they're both primarily for enterprise use, which is true.  Fedora is a desktop-oriented distribution with a lot of effort put into office productivity tools and integration with typical corporate employee-facing infrastructure, while CentOS/RHEL is built for enterprise servers in a datacenter.

Your view is more nuanced, which is a good thing.


Edited by TTK Ciar, 03 June 2019 - 1805 PM.

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#204 Ivanhoe

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 1813 PM

Your infographic puts me on the downhill slope, so I now officially hate you.


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#205 Murph

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 0525 AM

Your infographic puts me on the downhill slope, so I now officially hate you.

LOL, Been there, and I am arguably older than you are since I am staring really, really hard at 60.


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#206 Panzermann

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 0836 AM

 

 

A bit dated


.. and yet the depictions for Fedora/CentOS, Ubuntu and Slackware are still amazingly accurate ;-)

 

 
Actually, IME the Fedora fanboys tend to be younger (you know, like in their 40s) and less corporate. There's a huge difference between Fedora fanboys and CentOS fanboys; Fedora fanboys wear Tux t-shirts, CentOS fanboys wear polo shirts.

 

you can wear Tux polo shirts:
https://www.tux-onli...lo-shirt-3d-tux
 
best of both worlds. :D

 

 

Murph, the slam at the Slackware crowd is simply an illustration of the different mindsets. Enthusiast versus production sysop. The younger two decades of admins tend to have the "change is better!" thing going on. They get wound up about distros, desktop environments, etc. Older folks tend to want less admin drudgework, more stability, and its about the user application not the OS. 
 
For home use, to me its all about drivers and documentation. For work, its about security, stability, and uptime. When it comes to sysadminning, the people to whom I listen talk about uptime in terms of years, not days.

 
I am always a bit miffed, wehn I have to reboot for a patched kernel. But kexec on a laptop or home PC is a bit much.

 

 

 

btw, about teh Mint Linux user, what am I when I use the pure debian based mint?

 

 

And what about MX Linux? Runs fine on my older laptop.

 

 

And it lets you FUBAR it just fine by installing a custom gaming kernel. But easily rolled back. Thats what I get for installing a rolling release kernel optimised for low latency and gaming.  ^_^

 

 

edit: this one: https://liquorix.net/Hey it was just one click...


Edited by Panzermann, 09 June 2019 - 0837 AM.

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#207 Ivanhoe

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 1049 AM

btw, about teh Mint Linux user, what am I when I use the pure debian based mint?


An Asian-American nerd taking all AP courses at the STEM magnet school.
 

And what about MX Linux? Runs fine on my older laptop.


I haven't even heard of it, so it must be the domain of knaves, scoundrels, and wastrels.
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#208 Murph

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 1232 PM

MX is getting lots of good reviews lately.  As for Linux Mint Debian Edition, I might try it at some point.  


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#209 Ivanhoe

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 1450 PM

So I decided to look into Mint Debian, which meant I had to revisit Debian itself. And, sadly, the Debian authorities have gone full SJW;

 

https://wiki.debian.org/AntiHarassment


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#210 Murph

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 1843 PM

So I decided to look into Mint Debian, which meant I had to revisit Debian itself. And, sadly, the Debian authorities have gone full SJW;

 

https://wiki.debian.org/AntiHarassment

Eventually the SJWs will ruin Debian itself.  


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#211 Murph

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 0916 AM

Canonical's decision to remove 32 bit software from Ubuntu is a BAD IDEA.  Killing off the gamers will reduce Linux to a smaller user base, since why would many use an o/s that prevents them from doing everything they want to do?  It will, I fear reinforce the perception that Linux users are a small elitist group of geeks.  Hopefully Mint will either get with Valve and do something, or focus on LMDE as a primary.


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#212 Panzermann

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 1127 AM

Canonical's decision to remove 32 bit software from Ubuntu is a BAD IDEA.  Killing off the gamers will reduce Linux to a smaller user base, since why would many use an o/s that prevents them from doing everything they want to do?  It will, I fear reinforce the perception that Linux users are a small elitist group of geeks.  Hopefully Mint will either get with Valve and do something, or focus on LMDE as a primary.


Debian still has no plans to remove multiarch, so there is that. And Ubuntu is a Debian derivative anyway. But with the "anti-harassment" stuff...

 

Is there any big linux variant that has not been infected?


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#213 Murph

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 0606 AM

No, they have all had the SJW virus injected.  I hope the antibodies are strong enough to resist.  

 

Canonical seems to want to become an Apple, and control things.  Linux is not Apple or Microsoft, so it would be bad to try and make it one of those.


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#214 Panzermann

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 1453 PM



No, they have all had the SJW virus injected.  I hope the antibodies are strong enough to resist.  [/quote]

 

I hope the "revolution" is going to eat itself. They are already stumbling over their own contradicitons.

 

[quote]

Canonical seems to want to become an Apple, and control things.  Linux is not Apple or Microsoft, so it would be bad to try and make it one of those.

 

Well, that was the plan from the start, wasn't it? At least that is what some of those constant naysayers suspected from the start.

 

Google has pretty much shown howto use open source to kill competition and then lock it all down. cases in point: Android and Chrome.


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#215 Murph

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 1840 PM

Anyone tried Debian Buster yet?   This guy is not impressed with some of the issues (but it sounds like he likes more cutting edge distros.

 

 

Also I really, really, really want one of these:  

 


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#216 TTK Ciar

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 2253 PM

All these years I've seen testimony from folks who switched from Windows to Linux, who exclaim it's "so much faster".

I didn't believe them, because that was ridiculous. Most applications spend most of their time running user-space code within the application itself, without the OS's involvement. Outside some pathological cases they should run at about the same speed.

Here at the office we just got issued laptops, with strict instructions to leave Windows on them, and NOT install Linux. I've been using it to leave Teams up, so I can chat with my coworkers, but otherwise ignoring it.

Or trying to ignore it. It's been an educational experience.

First off, yes, indeed, Windows is much slower at all sorts of random things -- connecting to a network, bringing up an app, changing directories -- dorky little nothing things that should happen more or less instantly, but don't. The applications run just as fast as they do under Linux, once they've been launched, but after launching the application one can't just use it and ignore the OS, because the OS keeps demanding attention, popping up notifications and windows from other applications which have to be dismissed before I can get back to what I was doing. WTF?

It's been prone to weird failures. My Windows-using friends assure me its fragility a thing of the distant past, but in just the last couple of days this laptop has mysteriously lost the ability to use its ethernet port, not just once but twice (rebooting the system restored use, both times), caused Teams to exit (you had ONE JOB! ONE!) and rebooted itself once for "updates".

It's unusable. How the hell does anyone tolerate this trash?
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#217 Ivanhoe

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 0701 AM

First off, yes, indeed, Windows is much slower at all sorts of random things -- connecting to a network, bringing up an app, changing directories -- dorky little nothing things that should happen more or less instantly, but don't. The applications run just as fast as they do under Linux, once they've been launched, but after launching the application one can't just use it and ignore the OS, because the OS keeps demanding attention, popping up notifications and windows from other applications which have to be dismissed before I can get back to what I was doing. WTF?


Ironically, in Win 7/8/8a, there was a Registry tweak where you could control window focus stealing, i.e. disable it. So if you were typing away in Word or whatever, any kind of popup popped up in the background, so your text input continued in Word.

MS made the genious decision to remove that Registry key in 10. So when I'm at work, the ActivClient program that reads CAC cards for authentication will pop up, steal focus, then background itself. I type my PIN, expecting my keyboard entry to go into the ActivClient window which is on top and demanding I re-authenticate. Instead, it goes into Word or whatever.

Apparently there is no one who has ownership of the ActivClient program.

Some of your federal tax dollars are going to pay the salaries of service members, civil servants, and contractors to periocially go through their files and deleting their PIN.

You're welcome.

It's been prone to weird failures. My Windows-using friends assure me its fragility a thing of the distant past, but in just the last couple of days this laptop has mysteriously lost the ability to use its ethernet port, not just once but twice (rebooting the system restored use, both times), caused Teams to exit (you had ONE JOB! ONE!) and rebooted itself once for "updates".


My home desktop lost the ability to receive input from the keyboard for about 36 hours. Tried different USB ports, different keyboards, etc. Ran countless A/V scans including bootable A/V distros. Never figured it out. Resumed working for unknown reasons.

It's unusable. How the hell does anyone tolerate this trash?


Fortunately in my day job I don't need to manage desktops. But I shudder to think what it must be like to manage 500+ desktops.

Rumor is that some units are going to VDI. The way Win10 has been going, that's probably the only way to keep TCO down to a dull roar. Snapshot every 8 hours, use de-dup so that everyone is booting off the same golden image, etc.
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#218 GregShaw

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 1616 PM

Coworkers used to make fun of me for swearing at my Windows 7 machine to quit stealing focus, drove me nuts and still does. Never an excuse for an app or the OS to steal focus from what the user is doing. Mac OS X used to be better than windows about that, but under Ivy most of the usability of OS X was sacrificed for looks. When I fired up my old OS 9 Imac I was shocked by how much more usable the 20+ year old interface was than 10.14 on my 2018 Mini. 10.6.8 which I still have running on my 2007 Macbook Pro is still the ultimate OS X version, every version since then has regressed in usability, same with their hardware over the last decade. 

 

I have Linux Mint running on my Mom's old Samsung laptop  (i3/2.4 ghz, 4 gb Ram, 500 gb spinning rust), but it isn't fair to compare it's performance to my 2x Lenovo's running Win 10 (i7/2.8, 16 gb, 1 tb SSD; i5/2.7 8gb, 1 tb spinning rust). Even in Linux the performance is poor, a RAM and SSD upgrade would make it competitive but can't justify the expense for a 4th or 5th computer


Edited by GregShaw, 17 July 2019 - 1617 PM.

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#219 Murph

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 1502 PM

Mint 19.2 Beta getting rave reviews.  So far I have no issues.  


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#220 Murph

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 1503 PM

Coworkers used to make fun of me for swearing at my Windows 7 machine to quit stealing focus, drove me nuts and still does. Never an excuse for an app or the OS to steal focus from what the user is doing. Mac OS X used to be better than windows about that, but under Ivy most of the usability of OS X was sacrificed for looks. When I fired up my old OS 9 Imac I was shocked by how much more usable the 20+ year old interface was than 10.14 on my 2018 Mini. 10.6.8 which I still have running on my 2007 Macbook Pro is still the ultimate OS X version, every version since then has regressed in usability, same with their hardware over the last decade. 

 

I have Linux Mint running on my Mom's old Samsung laptop  (i3/2.4 ghz, 4 gb Ram, 500 gb spinning rust), but it isn't fair to compare it's performance to my 2x Lenovo's running Win 10 (i7/2.8, 16 gb, 1 tb SSD; i5/2.7 8gb, 1 tb spinning rust). Even in Linux the performance is poor, a RAM and SSD upgrade would make it competitive but can't justify the expense for a 4th or 5th computer

Get the RAM now, it is going to go up.  Also Best Buy had some very good prices on Samsung 500 gb SSDs.


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