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#41 Nobu

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Posted 05 May 2019 - 1132 AM

Salarywomen versus familywomen is a thing, as there is some rivalry bordering on contempt between the 2.


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#42 rmgill

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Posted 05 May 2019 - 1203 PM

Maybe because women with no or a bad career,spending their lives raising kids, are at the mercy in the long term of their husbands and want financial security for themselves ? Also in nowadays culture having a career is indeed what defines yourself, why deny women the right to that and relegate them to second class citizens ?


That very well may be, but I suspect thousands of years of evolutionary drive is still asserting itself, even among many women who think career is king. The hypergamy still asserts. What's second class about raising children?


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#43 Tim the Tank Nut

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 0754 AM

the notion that being a mother is a second tier calling is an abomination.

In fact, same thing for being a father.

In past times people seemed willing to accept the choices that others made, now the choices of the one are decided by the many.

 

One blessing about aging is that you are less concerned about what others think.  Unfortunately once there you are generally past child bearing years.

There are (and will be more) many career women who secretly regret putting everything into a career only to end up old and lonely (but rich!).

There are some that don't miss real life but many more that do.  They just won't admit it.


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#44 Rick

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 1904 PM

Although women have traditionally gained their greatest joy and sense of accomplishment from being wives and mothers; an equally important role as men's responsibilities as husbands and fathers, the feminist movement has successfully influenced many women to abandon these divinely ordained roles. Unfortunately, this movement has made headway even in the church, creating chaos and confusion regarding the role of women both in ministry and in the home. Only in Scripture can God’s intended design for women be found.

Edited by Rick, 06 May 2019 - 1904 PM.

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#45 Corinthian

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Posted 09 May 2019 - 0519 AM

the notion that being a mother is a second tier calling is an abomination.

In fact, same thing for being a father.

In past times people seemed willing to accept the choices that others made, now the choices of the one are decided by the many.

 

One blessing about aging is that you are less concerned about what others think.  Unfortunately once there you are generally past child bearing years.

There are (and will be more) many career women who secretly regret putting everything into a career only to end up old and lonely (but rich!).

There are some that don't miss real life but many more that do.  They just won't admit it.

 

A good friend of mine since law school days decided that she did not want to marry but wanted kids. She consulted with an OB-GYN and was told the age limit of when she can get pregnant without complications. She got herself pregnant at that age and bore a son. She made an agreement with the biological dad that he has zero anything to do with the child. She just wanted to have an heir. She is now thinking of adopting a girl for a daughter. My friend is a real career woman, focusing on acquiring wealth. She's a CPA-lawyer and a good one.

 

Sadly, she isn't interested in any relations so I am firmly in the friendzone. :lol:


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#46 Rick

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Posted 09 May 2019 - 0547 AM

 

the notion that being a mother is a second tier calling is an abomination.

In fact, same thing for being a father.

In past times people seemed willing to accept the choices that others made, now the choices of the one are decided by the many.

 

One blessing about aging is that you are less concerned about what others think.  Unfortunately once there you are generally past child bearing years.

There are (and will be more) many career women who secretly regret putting everything into a career only to end up old and lonely (but rich!).

There are some that don't miss real life but many more that do.  They just won't admit it.

 

A good friend of mine since law school days decided that she did not want to marry but wanted kids. She consulted with an OB-GYN and was told the age limit of when she can get pregnant without complications. She got herself pregnant at that age and bore a son. She made an agreement with the biological dad that he has zero anything to do with the child. She just wanted to have an heir. She is now thinking of adopting a girl for a daughter. My friend is a real career woman, focusing on acquiring wealth. She's a CPA-lawyer and a good one.

 

Sadly, she isn't interested in any relations so I am firmly in the friendzone. :lol:

 

The sad part is the child. There is a reason why children need a man and a woman becoming husband and wife, and then a mother and father. 


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#47 Jeff

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Posted 09 May 2019 - 0614 AM

 

 

the notion that being a mother is a second tier calling is an abomination.

In fact, same thing for being a father.

In past times people seemed willing to accept the choices that others made, now the choices of the one are decided by the many.

 

One blessing about aging is that you are less concerned about what others think.  Unfortunately once there you are generally past child bearing years.

There are (and will be more) many career women who secretly regret putting everything into a career only to end up old and lonely (but rich!).

There are some that don't miss real life but many more that do.  They just won't admit it.

 

A good friend of mine since law school days decided that she did not want to marry but wanted kids. She consulted with an OB-GYN and was told the age limit of when she can get pregnant without complications. She got herself pregnant at that age and bore a son. She made an agreement with the biological dad that he has zero anything to do with the child. She just wanted to have an heir. She is now thinking of adopting a girl for a daughter. My friend is a real career woman, focusing on acquiring wealth. She's a CPA-lawyer and a good one.

 

Sadly, she isn't interested in any relations so I am firmly in the friendzone. :lol:

 

The sad part is the child. There is a reason why children need a man and a woman becoming husband and wife, and then a mother and father. 

 

Next time just get a dog, for Pete's sake. At least men only get mistresses and sports cars for their mid-life crises. These single professional and celebrity women collect kids like jewelry.


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#48 Skywalkre

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 1128 AM

Shock, surprise...

 

 

In March 2007, Spain introduced a national policy granting most new fathers two weeks of fully paid paternity leave.

...

Unexpectedly, though, the researchers also found that families who were eligible for the paternity leave were less likely to have kids in the future. In a study published in the Journal of Public Economics (paywall), economists Lídia Farré of the University of Barcelona and Libertad González of University of Pompeu Fabra estimate that two years on, parents who had been eligible for the newly introduced program were 7% to 15% less likely to have another kid than parents who just missed the eligibility cutoff. While the difference dissipated further into the future, even after six years, parents who had been eligible for the leave were still less likely to have a child again.

https://qz.com/work/...e=pocket-newtab

 

Kind of an annoying article.  The quote above talks about what they actually have as far as children and then the rest of the article talks about shifting desires in what parents say they want.  Doesn't matter what you want, matters what you have.

 

IIRC from the book Spain is one of the lowest nations in Europe as far as fertility rate goes, FWIW.


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#49 Skywalkre

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Posted 26 December 2019 - 1822 PM

Japan is still struggling (and the rest of the developed world will be right behind them).

 

 

Japan's Births Decline To Lowest Number On Record

 

December 24, 20191:55 PM ET

Laurel Wamsley

 

Japan has been trying to increase its birth rate for years, hoping that a youthful boost could offset an otherwise rapidly aging population. It's not working.

 

The country's health ministry announced Tuesday that the number of babies born in 2019 fell by an estimated 5.9% this year, to 864,000. It's the first time since 1899, when the government began tracking the data, that the number has dipped below 900,000, according to The Asahi Shimbun.

 

The decline in the absolute number of births is especially stark given that Japan's population in 1899 was about one-third of its approximately 126 million people today.

 

https://www.npr.org/...umber-on-record


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#50 JasonJ

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Posted 26 December 2019 - 2158 PM

Abe's fertility rate aim of 1.8 is taking too long. Some of the talking heads want a baby boom. Too much materialism, too much women's right ideals and noisey MSM, too little national pride, too little appreciation of the mother role, too many sissy males. The worse offender is Tokyo with a fertility rate of something like 1.15 (still higher than all of ROK...) We like Tokyo stuff and Japan weired stuff and JAV. But its taking a toll. Some prefectures are actually not too bad though, at like 1.6. A little more push, and they'd be on mark.
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#51 Nobu

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Posted 26 December 2019 - 2335 PM

Japan is still struggling (and the rest of the developed world will be right behind them).

 

 

Japan's Births Decline To Lowest Number On Record

 

December 24, 20191:55 PM ET

Laurel Wamsley

 

Japan has been trying to increase its birth rate for years, hoping that a youthful boost could offset an otherwise rapidly aging population. It's not working.

 

The country's health ministry announced Tuesday that the number of babies born in 2019 fell by an estimated 5.9% this year, to 864,000. It's the first time since 1899, when the government began tracking the data, that the number has dipped below 900,000, according to The Asahi Shimbun.

 

The decline in the absolute number of births is especially stark given that Japan's population in 1899 was about one-third of its approximately 126 million people today.

 

https://www.npr.org/...umber-on-record

 

Not a good sign, but I am guardedly optimistic that first-world problems like this one will ultimately command the attention of first-world resources to solve. 

 

What I am not optimistic about is the role the entrenched Japanese porn industry will play in this effort. It may end up as the parasite to be cleansed in various ways.


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#52 JasonJ

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Posted 26 December 2019 - 2355 PM

There's been a turn around in Japan though, so it leaves me a little optimistic for a stronger turn around. The lowest years were between 2000 and 2010. Here's a handy graph showing the difference between 2006 and 2016 among the prefectures, coming with its own English.

fertility0616.jpg

https://www.mhlw.go....t/dl/81-1a2.pdf

 

For just raw numbers, the next link has all the recent years including 2017 and 2018 and past years back to 1960. There's been a slight fall from 2016 (1.44) to 2017 (1.43) and again to 2018 (1.42). 2019 is not looking good, might be a 1.40 for the national rate.

 

Although a few prefectures see 2018 as their highest and so still a little better over 2016 such as Fukui at 1.67, Kumamoto at 1.69, and Kagoshima at 1.70. Okinawa fell to 1.89 but still the highest. Tokyo fell to 1.20.

https://www.e-stat.g...1308&fileKind=1


Edited by JasonJ, 26 December 2019 - 2356 PM.

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#53 Ssnake

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Posted 27 December 2019 - 0526 AM

Has anyone considered the insane working hours as a contributing factor for low fertility?


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#54 JasonJ

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Posted 27 December 2019 - 0620 AM

仕事仕事
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#55 Nobu

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Posted 27 December 2019 - 0640 AM

I have heard it discussed and would certainly add it to the social and cultural mix of causes creating the issue. The first rule of salaryman is: You do not talk about work-life balance.


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#56 bojan

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Posted 27 December 2019 - 0658 AM

Has anyone considered the insane working hours as a contributing factor for low fertility?

Psst, it is easier to blame it on anime.


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#57 JasonJ

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Posted 27 December 2019 - 0716 AM

But no one blamed anime :)
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#58 Skywalkre

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Posted 27 December 2019 - 0952 AM

There's been a turn around in Japan though, so it leaves me a little optimistic for a stronger turn around. The lowest years were between 2000 and 2010. Here's a handy graph showing the difference between 2006 and 2016 among the prefectures, coming with its own English.

fertility0616.jpg

https://www.mhlw.go....t/dl/81-1a2.pdf

 

For just raw numbers, the next link has all the recent years including 2017 and 2018 and past years back to 1960. There's been a slight fall from 2016 (1.44) to 2017 (1.43) and again to 2018 (1.42). 2019 is not looking good, might be a 1.40 for the national rate.

 

Although a few prefectures see 2018 as their highest and so still a little better over 2016 such as Fukui at 1.67, Kumamoto at 1.69, and Kagoshima at 1.70. Okinawa fell to 1.89 but still the highest. Tokyo fell to 1.20.

https://www.e-stat.g...1308&fileKind=1

 

The problem is you need a rate around 2.1 just to maintain your population.  The book mentioned at the start of this thread highlighted that so far when nations hit 1.5 or lower they're never able to climb back up over that figure.  Japan seems to be no exception.


Edited by Skywalkre, 27 December 2019 - 0953 AM.

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#59 Nobu

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Posted 27 December 2019 - 1118 AM

It is definitely a problem, one that may be exacerbated by face and the easier path of not tackling it head on in various ways.


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#60 JasonJ

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Posted 27 December 2019 - 2017 PM

There's been a turn around in Japan though, so it leaves me a little optimistic for a stronger turn around. The lowest years were between 2000 and 2010. Here's a handy graph showing the difference between 2006 and 2016 among the prefectures, coming with its own English.
[image]
https://www.mhlw.go....t/dl/81-1a2.pdf
 
For just raw numbers, the next link has all the recent years including 2017 and 2018 and past years back to 1960. There's been a slight fall from 2016 (1.44) to 2017 (1.43) and again to 2018 (1.42). 2019 is not looking good, might be a 1.40 for the national rate.
 
Although a few prefectures see 2018 as their highest and so still a little better over 2016 such as Fukui at 1.67, Kumamoto at 1.69, and Kagoshima at 1.70. Okinawa fell to 1.89 but still the highest. Tokyo fell to 1.20.
https://www.e-stat.g...1308&fileKind=1

 
The problem is you need a rate around 2.1 just to maintain your population.  The book mentioned at the start of this thread highlighted that so far when nations hit 1.5 or lower they're never able to climb back up over that figure.  Japan seems to be no exception.

The 1.8 would be a step towards the right direction before reaching 2.1. It really shouldn't be hravily government backed though. If the population itself doesn't recognize that life style changes are the onlh way to change course, then yeah, your book will be correct. There are things the government can do such as provide financial incentives, but it won't be enough alone. Heavy work hours is a factor but I'm pretty sure long work hours have existed in the 1960s and 1970s yet national fertility rate was around 2.1 in those years. Kt started to nose dive upon entering the 80s. I think what happened is that attention drawing power of all the new dazzling entertainment has exceeded the attention drawing power of finding a mate out of the average Joe-san and average Sakura-san. Need sex satisfaction, the porn is right there. Why bother experimenting with potentially hazardess relationship making? Or the other way, there are girls in their 20s that still have not had entered into a relationship. Yet when they have the "I want a boy friend" desire, it goes in competition with the ideal boy friend role models found in boy band groups. Average Joe-san can't compete with that manufactured role model. I think a realization that all this stuff is just entertainment and is not real life. The fake life in the entertainment distracts for too long and exceeds in attention drawing power the naturally existing energy in finding a mate. It is of course not a call to ban it or anything like that. But recognition of the trend and a desire to see the trend change and how to do it is the only way. Not easy, hence the conclusion of your book. Also of course there is still individual differences. Some people have naturally lower energy to find a mate then others because of higher energy towards other things, but I'm just speaking in terms of average.
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