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Eval Of Ef88


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#1 Stargrunt6

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 0821 AM

Article is a bit dusty, but the author checks out ADF's newer version of their AUG copy:

LINK
 

ef88_10.jpg


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#2 baboon6

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 0916 AM

Looks like the EF88 will be entering service soon:

 

http://www.janes.com...ract?from_rss=1

 

Edited to add- 1RAR already has them I think:

 

http://www.army.gov....ve-enhanced-F88


Edited by baboon6, 13 July 2015 - 1020 AM.

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#3 shep854

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 0928 AM

From The Firearm Blog, a recent article with links to several other evaluations as well:

http://www.thefirear...f88-for-trials/


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#4 2805662

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 1340 PM

As mentioned, that pic is a little out of date.

The fielded rifle now has a bolt release catch to the rear of the magazine well - no, not ambidextrous- and the first 1,500 are black. Who knows about the next 30,000?

The overall lack of ambition on this is the most disappointing. I watched this develop over several years, there just didn't seem to be any appetite to push the contractor to deliver a weapon that had the basics right.

Even basic stuff, like the fact that all three rails are a different distance from the axis of the bore, are indicative of a lack of weapon system design experience on Lithgow's first ever service weapon that isn't build to print.'

An example of the lack of ambition is the proposed STANAG compatible magazine well evolved into:

http://www.thefirear...mags-steyr-aug/

Classic example of what happens when there's no competition to drive innovation.
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#5 Simon Tan

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 0215 AM

My first wonder is why they persist with LH ejection? How many LH kits are issued? The Malaysians never even issued 1 for the 60,000 they fielded. Heck they never ever issued any other barrel assembly either.

The decision to not have a NATO butt is odd, since it allows them to be more interoperable with everyone(on their side) but the Kiwis. There are so few Kiwis, they could just donate NATO butts to them.

The Butt assembly retains the sling swivel retention pin. This is not really a brilliant idea for many reasons, not least of which is that it loads a pin that is needed for disassembly. Opening up the ejection port is an attempt of course to eliminate the failures to eject that can lodge brass in the butt which requires a takedown to clear. Also, the swivel in that position means the gun doesn't drape flat and wants to rotate into the body. Almost 40 years of 'could be better'...... An integral loop at the top of the butt would be a better idea IMO. Lots of swivels and hardware just adds complexity and cost to everything. They could have added a slinging point to the top rear of the stock. Cast as part of the stock.

Where they should have added a slinging point is just behind the pistol grip in the form of a QD socket. This would be for a single point or vest strap type sling. This is not possible with the retention pin swivel as it will be too low when allowed to hang free but too short to do transitions etc.

The shitty crossbolt safety is unchanged as is the triggerpack and trigger. I do not know why these have not be reengineered. Their deign and construction makes no sense at all in the 21st century.

Could put a proper trigger guard in place of that goofy open handguard.....

Why they redesigned the receiver with that 3'oc'clock rail way out in space is really amazing as is the receiver arrangement. I understand that they want to keep the base receiver compatible with the 14" CQB barrel but the general arrangement is just pathetic. It puts everything away from the support hand so you have to have a bunch of remote switches etc. Also, running a light so far back will create ridiculous shadowing.

What they need is a handguard to mount over the barrel that has M-Lok or KeyMod (takes your pick) running up to the muzzle on a 16 or the bayo lug on the 20. The 12 o'clock P-rail is located low so a light or laser or both are kept low and don't clutter the sight picture but immediately controllable when using a contemporary clamp or swordsman stance. Also allows the shooter to use a barricade for support.

The bayonet lug should have been flipped over to put the lug on top so that they could affix bayonets to a GL equipped gun in extremis. The other part of it is that they should bin the awful M9 for a slimmer and more sensible poking device.

A lot of money spent for....not a lot of improvement.

Edited by Simon Tan, 14 July 2015 - 0625 AM.

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#6 2805662

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 0334 AM

Agree with a lot of the points.

Even minor additions, like the casing deflector immediately to the rear of the ejection port to enable ambidextrous use was binned.

The only barrel lengths available are 'rifle' @ 508mm (20") & 'carbine' @ 407mm (16").

The Kiwis are replacing their AUG rifles. Interestingly (tellingly?), the EF88 is not being considered.

Still, the project achieved its purpose: fund continuing rifle production by 140 staff in a marginal electorate.

Edited by 2805662, 14 July 2015 - 0557 AM.

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#7 shep854

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 0801 AM

Gun porn of F90 rifle:


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#8 shep854

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Posted 21 October 2016 - 1921 PM

Military Arms Channel review of the F90.  Among the neat features is a brass deflector for firing from the left shoulder.  A leftie fires it and the rounds clear his face.  Another positive is a pin that can be extended from the trigger to prevent FA fire.

That huge trigger guard, though...plus, it won't take standard AR mags.


Edited by shep854, 21 October 2016 - 1929 PM.

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#9 Arawa

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Posted 22 October 2016 - 0043 AM

[quote name="shep854" post="1273915" timestamp="1477095672"]

Military Arms Channel review of the F90.  Among the neat features is a brass deflector for firing from the left shoulder.  A leftie fires it and the rounds clear his face.  Another positive is a pin that can be extended from the trigger to prevent FA fire.
That huge trigger guard, though...plus, it won't take standard AR mags.


If Lithgow Arms is serious about selling the "ATRAX" it would make sense to use the American market's most prevalent .223 magazine. Bizarre that it does not use AR magazines. IIRC AR magazine conversions exist for the AUG, so surprising an AR magwell was not engineered in.

Also an Australian business selling products to a foreign civilian market that are barred to Australians. That's unfortunate, I'd hope that Lithgow are active in supporting AU shooters.

Edited by Arawa, 22 October 2016 - 0047 AM.

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#10 Corinthian

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Posted 22 October 2016 - 0458 AM

Military Arms Channel review of the F90.  Among the neat features is a brass deflector for firing from the left shoulder.  A leftie fires it and the rounds clear his face.  Another positive is a pin that can be extended from the trigger to prevent FA fire.

That huge trigger guard, though...plus, it won't take standard AR mags.

 

SWEET!


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#11 Panzermann

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Posted 22 October 2016 - 1414 PM

[quote name="Arawa" post="1273944" timestamp="1477114997"]

[quote name="shep854" post="1273915" timestamp="1477095672"]

Military Arms Channel review of the F90.  Among the neat features is a brass deflector for firing from the left shoulder.  A leftie fires it and the rounds clear his face.  Another positive is a pin that can be extended from the trigger to prevent FA fire.
That huge trigger guard, though...plus, it won't take standard AR mags.
[/quote][/quote]

It was made so wide to accommodate the grenade launcher trigger.


If Lithgow Arms is serious about selling the "ATRAX" it would make sense to use the American market's most prevalent .223 magazine. Bizarre that it does not use AR magazines. IIRC AR magazine conversions exist for the AUG, so surprising an AR magwell was not engineered in.


Why should the australian army buy new magazines? And for the export rifle a new magazine would mean more tests and thus cost. And there is nothing wrong with AUG magazines. They plain work.

[quote]Also an Australian business selling products to a foreign civilian market that are barred to Australians. That's unfortunate, I'd hope that Lithgow are active in supporting AU shooters.


Anything that makes money. ;)

Edited by Panzermann, 22 October 2016 - 1415 PM.

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#12 Arawa

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Posted 22 October 2016 - 1648 PM

Panzerman

I expect the AU Army is always buying new magazines, and AR magazines are already in the logistics train due to the presence of the M4 (SOCOMD issue).

I guess it depends on how serious Lithgow want to be taken as a supplier to the civy market? Because spending the extra time/effort to engineer in an AR compatible magwell for the civilian market would have been a plus for sales. Basically, I can purchase AR magazines easy, whereas AUG mags are pricey and rare. Also in most nations* that allow the sales of EBRs to its citizens, I expect AR magazine availability is common over all others types of magazines.

Sadly I believe the AU defence and sporting firearm/ammunition industries have been silent on supporting their own citizenry. I'd love to be proved wrong though.

(* I'll take a guess and say maybe Valmet And SIG 550 mags are common in Finland and Switzerland as being the AR equivalent)

Edited by Arawa, 22 October 2016 - 1817 PM.

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#13 2805662

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Posted 23 October 2016 - 0707 AM

The "draft STANAG" magwell for the EF88 is coming in 2017. In the meantime, the ADF can now buy MagPul AUG magazines, should it so choose.

BTW, for our American friends, Lithgow is pronounced 'lith-go', not gow like cow.

Edited by 2805662, 23 October 2016 - 1555 PM.

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#14 Arawa

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Posted 23 October 2016 - 1516 PM

The "draft STANAG" magwell for the EF88 is coming in 2017. In the meantime, the ADF can now buy MagPul AUG magazines, should it so choose.


Excellent - I don't need a bull pup, but since I already have the magazines ... Hmmm
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#15 2805662

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Posted 23 October 2016 - 1552 PM

The STA (surveillance/target acquisition) suite of the EF88 should make a big difference at range.

Each rifle is delivered with the F2 day sight (Elcan SpectreDR 1x/4x). One in four are delivered with the F3 Thermal Imaging Sight (Elbit XacTh65 inline thermal). One in four have the L-3 Squad Range Finder (SRF laser range finder, IR laser, IR illuminator, visible laser) to precisely determine range.

07680F95-AC68-4187-B3BF-EF6FFDF315BB_zps
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#16 shep854

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Posted 23 October 2016 - 1835 PM

I also posted this on the FB Tank-Net page, and the discussion got into ammo.  Is Oz staying with the SS109/M855 cartridge?


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#17 Chris Werb

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Posted 23 October 2016 - 1948 PM

The STA (surveillance/target acquisition) suite of the EF88 should make a big difference at range.

Each rifle is delivered with the F2 day sight (Elcan SpectreDR 1x/4x). One in four are delivered with the F3 Thermal Imaging Sight (Elbit XacTh65 inline thermal). One in four have the L-3 Squad Range Finder (SRF laser range finder, IR laser, IR illuminator, visible laser) to precisely determine range.

07680F95-AC68-4187-B3BF-EF6FFDF315BB_zps

 

Delivered as in to the ADF?


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#18 2805662

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 0023 AM

Chris - yep ADF. They're the only customer.
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#19 shep854

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 0930 AM

Thread, COME FORTH!

First deployment; so far, so good:

http://www.thefirear...nal-deployment/

Thales EF88 Completes First Operational Deployment

 

"The Thales EF88 assault rifle has seen its first operational deployment, and the reception is reportedly very warm"

 

' “The EF88 has proven itself as an extremely reliable, accurate and versatile weapon which has gained the praise of not only Australian personnel but also our New Zealand counterparts and coalition partners.” '


Edited by shep854, 10 November 2017 - 0936 AM.

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#20 Chris Werb

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 1048 AM

But NZ chose to go AR despite that. :)


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