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Meanwhile In Turkey


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#2081 GARGEAN

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 1044 AM

One thing is for sure.  The Russian government went from being non-committal on the SU-57 last year (vs, say, the SU-35) to the major support of it.

It was never, NEVER non-committal on it. Stop spreading BI bullshit.


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#2082 glenn239

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 1056 AM

First contract was for 12 planes, wasn't it?  


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#2083 GARGEAN

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 1122 AM

Yes. Says nothing since it was analogue of LRIP.
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#2084 Yama

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 1646 PM

Russian MoD said 'we don't need to rush Su-57 production' -> some daft Western wannabe analyst interpreted it as 'This could mean effectively cancelling large-scale purchase of Su-57' -> major news outlets grabbed on it and reported how Su-57 is cancelled. It was textbook example of broken telephone style of fake news.
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#2085 GARGEAN

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 0336 AM

Exactly. And so many people believed what they wanted to believe.
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#2086 Simon Tan

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 0457 AM

Armata! Etc.
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#2087 GARGEAN

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 0624 AM

Armata! Etc.

Elaborate?


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#2088 KV7

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 0703 AM

 

Armata! Etc.

Elaborate?

 

I assume he means that Amarta is another thing that will happen, but where certain people get excited about saying is never going to enter full scale production.


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#2089 Roman Alymov

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Posted 12 July 2019 - 1257 PM

Rus MOD video

 

and from Turkish side

D_RNoqCUIAIv3Ks.jpg

D_RS95hUIAIUhJz.jpg


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#2090 Tim the Tank Nut

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Posted 12 July 2019 - 2112 PM

you got paid up front for that stuff, right?

I hope you didn't take a check!


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#2091 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 13 July 2019 - 0157 AM

Its going to be a real prize to have it on the Nellis electronic range. :)


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#2092 glenn239

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Posted 13 July 2019 - 0816 AM

you got paid up front for that stuff, right?

I hope you didn't take a check!

 

Behind the scenes Russia, etc., are creating financial institutions to conduct trading independent of the SWIFT system.  If you google a bit, you'll see where, for example, the Russians recently announced that all defense deals with India will be paid for independent of the US dollar.


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#2093 glenn239

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Posted 13 July 2019 - 0820 AM

Its going to be a real prize to have it on the Nellis electronic range. :)

 

Well, one thing is for sure.  Next time some Turkish F-16 pilots decides to attack Ankara in a coup attempt, they're going to be shot down before getting anywhere close.  


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#2094 Roman Alymov

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Posted 13 July 2019 - 0840 AM

you got paid up front for that stuff, right?

I hope you didn't take a check!

After five hundred years of wars and alliances, i do not think anybody in Rus leadership got any illusions about Turkey (both  negative and positive). This deal is part of complex political game, and i am not sure money are the highest priority in it (see how Putin is strongly criticized inside Russia for constructing nuclear power station in Turkey on Russian expense. for example)


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#2095 Tim the Tank Nut

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Posted 13 July 2019 - 0853 AM

I have to hand it to you.  Your government takes political gambles that are super risky yet they do seem to pay off for your side.

I am genuinely confused as to how sending missiles to a country known to shoot down your aircraft adds up but somehow it works for Team Russia.

Now, when Erdogan is in a cell under the Hippodrome the idea may not seem as bright but for now, who knows?


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#2096 Mighty_Zuk

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Posted 13 July 2019 - 0859 AM


 


Armata! Etc.

Elaborate?
 
I assume he means that Amarta is another thing that will happen, but where certain people get excited about saying is never going to enter full scale production.

It certainly doesn't help that they're still about 2,280 tanks behind the 2,300 by 2025 goal.
In 2015 they paraded tanks that were in driving and shooting condition. Yet only now are they starting state trials.

Kurganets is stuck in a limbo and likely won't see production until mid to late 2020's.

Bumerang is doing better but its status is not well understood.

In the Army forum they show a lot of different duplications, but no real progress on anything.
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#2097 Mighty_Zuk

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Posted 13 July 2019 - 0902 AM

I have to hand it to you.  Your government takes political gambles that are super risky yet they do seem to pay off for your side.
I am genuinely confused as to how sending missiles to a country known to shoot down your aircraft adds up but somehow it works for Team Russia.
Now, when Erdogan is in a cell under the Hippodrome the idea may not seem as bright but for now, who knows?


The reference action indicating the political relations should not be the downed airplane but the coup attempt.
Russia gave Erdogan vital intel for his survival, and he saw them as his saviors.

It's a no brainer that Erdogan would be willing to create an alliance. And for Russia, seizing such an opportunity to pull to its influence one of the most important NATO members, is also a no brainer.
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#2098 glenn239

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Posted 13 July 2019 - 0914 AM

I have to hand it to you.  Your government takes political gambles that are super risky yet they do seem to pay off for your side.

I am genuinely confused as to how sending missiles to a country known to shoot down your aircraft adds up but somehow it works for Team Russia.

Now, when Erdogan is in a cell under the Hippodrome the idea may not seem as bright but for now, who knows?

 

Not everybody is a Bismarck.  Yeltsin will be filed in library collections along with other famous clowns like Bozo. But Putin will be studied by generations of historians.

 

The reason why Russia is selling Turkey S-400's is because the advantages vastly outweigh the disadvantages.  Moscow has clearly concluded that war with Turkey at anytime during the life cycle of the S-400 system will be unnecessary and, frankly, probably counterproductive.  On the flip side of the coin, the prospect of a Turkey charting an independent foreign policy outside of NATO and at odds with the United States is a big change.  The way the US is running around the world trying to stop S-400 deals is just convincing the world they should have S-400's.  The US never whined about any Russian SAM system export before.  Why this one?  Must be the pips, right?


Edited by glenn239, 13 July 2019 - 0920 AM.

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#2099 glenn239

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Posted 13 July 2019 - 0919 AM

 

 

 

Armata! Etc.

Elaborate?
 
I assume he means that Amarta is another thing that will happen, but where certain people get excited about saying is never going to enter full scale production.

It certainly doesn't help that they're still about 2,280 tanks behind the 2,300 by 2025 goal.
In 2015 they paraded tanks that were in driving and shooting condition. Yet only now are they starting state trials.

Kurganets is stuck in a limbo and likely won't see production until mid to late 2020's.

Bumerang is doing better but its status is not well understood.

In the Army forum they show a lot of different duplications, but no real progress on anything.

 

 

I'd suggest that the Russians probably don't think modern tanks, new construction, are that beneficial in wars anymore.  They have tons of old tanks lying around that can be upgraded.  Why waste money on a new weapon system that will not prove decisive?  Missiles and energy weapons, data integration, AI, robotics, drones, miniaturization.  That's the ticket.  Tanks?  Why not spend a few billion trying to breed better horses for cavalry too?


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#2100 Roman Alymov

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Posted 13 July 2019 - 0959 AM

Not everybody is a Bismarck.  Yeltsin will be filed in library collections along with other famous clowns like Bozo. But Putin will be studied by generations of historians.

I am afraid you are overestimating Putin. From inside Russia he is not looking so brilliant or historic.

 

 

The reason why Russia is selling Turkey S-400's is because the advantages vastly outweigh the disadvantages.  Moscow has clearly concluded that war with Turkey at anytime during the life cycle of the S-400 system will be unnecessary and, frankly, probably counterproductive.  On the flip side of the coin, the prospect of a Turkey charting an independent foreign policy outside of NATO and at odds with the United States is a big change.  The way the US is running around the world trying to stop S-400 deals is just convincing the world they should have S-400's.  The US never whined about any Russian SAM system export before.  Why this one?  Must be the pips, right?

Well, as i said here before, from political point of view Russia should start distributing S-400s for free or at production cost - as every place S-400 is standing is the place superpowers (or only superpower standing) are no more having luxury of  undisputed airspace domination. And dominating airspace was the key for "end of history" decades.  Ending this "end of history" (world controlled by single power operating freely) and returning back to history process is good for Russia and for others (including voters of this power itself, if electing Trump is correct representation of regular USians demand) - even taking into consideration "history" is not paradise but bloody process.

  P.S. With all my skeptiocism to Putin, i think it worth quoting him here

https://youtu.be/FbY0VpyjtuI?t=654


Edited by Roman Alymov, 13 July 2019 - 1013 AM.

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