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#2441 DKTanker

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Posted Yesterday, 06:41 PM

 

The wall will make it more difficult to enter the USA. See how few managed to pass the intra-German border when the wall was up. That can be achieved in the USA too, probably with even better results due to modern technology.


Its a little easier to deter people when you use land mines and shoot on site, particularly when you give your border guards a bonus for a kill. Is that what you propose?

Also 'the wall' would be on much more hostile and remote terrain and be much longer than the inter German border.

 

Land mines and shoot to kill, tactics used to keep invaders out.  Tactics used by communist nations to keep their imprisoned populations in.  Tactics that European communist nations dispensed with during the last 15 years of their existence, though China may still use them and NoRK definitely does.

 

The Inner German Border and the Berlin Wall was right at half as long as the border between the US and Mexico.  The population of East Germany was about 5% of the US population, so it would seem on that basis alone a border wall with Mexico would be far cheaper for the US than was the Iron Curtain for East Germany.  It was a bit better for Czechoslovakia as their border; fenced, walled, and guarded was about 1/4 that of the US Mexico border with a population of just less than 5% of the US.

 

For all the hand wringing there weren't all that many casualties.  A few people killed trying to escape tyranny in the early days worked well to dissuade others from following.  So I should think that should a few invaders lose their lives, followers might similarly be dissuaded.


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#2442 rmgill

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Posted Yesterday, 07:14 PM

 

Its a little easier to deter people when you use land mines and shoot on site, particularly when you give your border guards a bonus for a kill. Is that what you propose?

Also 'the wall' would be on much more hostile and remote terrain and be much longer than the inter German border.

 

 

Given that we have numerous examples of Coyote's shooting at Americans when they bring contraband, slaves and illegals, some measure of shooting is bloody well warranted. 

The wall is an obstacle to prevent movement and channel it. Standard military concept. Since it's civil law enforcement you don't need landmines, but sensors and REAL obstacles to prevent movement between places like San Diego and Tijuana, it's rather warranted in some places to be something more than rusty military surplus PSP/MarstonMatt welded to posts. 


Border_Wall_at_Tijuana_and_San_Diego_Bor


More over, I know a 'Dreamer' who repeatedly and openly advocates on social media that she shouldn't have to abide by US immigration law and more over makes many of the routine anti-american statements of the left. After a certain point, I've really started to wonder what's keeping her here other than all the nifty things that make the US better than Mexico. 


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#2443 DKTanker

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Posted Yesterday, 07:28 PM

 

More over, I know a 'Dreamer' who repeatedly and openly advocates on social media that she shouldn't have to abide by US immigration law and more over makes many of the routine anti-american statements of the left. After a certain point, I've really started to wonder what's keeping her here other than all the nifty things that make the US better than Mexico. 

 

 

Quelle surprise.  We had a POTUS that said the same thing.  Just less than 50% of congress says the same thing.  ~100% of all Democrats, Leftards, and Libtards say the same thing.


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#2444 Murph

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Posted Yesterday, 08:15 PM

We get into chases with Coyotes and their Pollos all the time.  I am still amazed at how many people you can cram into a vehicle.  


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#2445 Skywalkre

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Posted Yesterday, 09:12 PM

Some interesting points from all the Friday pundit discussions.

 

- Speaking of Evangelicals a poll done in Dec showed their support for Trump has dropped a quarter - down from 81% at the election to 61% now.

- At any other time when the economy and stock market were performing this well the President would see a bump in poll numbers.  Not Trump.  He can't seem to escape the 36-40 range.  Begs the question that if things keep this way (growing economy but bad poll numbers) what will happen in an election?  Historically folks vote in favor of the incumbent when the economy is doing well.

- All this focus by the media on the government shutdown seems misplaced.  Previous ones (90s and '14) where the Rs were blamed saw them maintaining control or gaining seats during the next election.  In short - voters don't care.


Edited by Skywalkre, Yesterday, 09:13 PM.

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#2446 Simon Tan

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Posted 38 minutes ago

The mistake is to catch and release. Catch and chain gang building the Wall.
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#2447 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 34 minutes ago

I cant help but think anyone looking to the Berlin wall as an example of how to do business, would do well to reflect on the fact that it was a bankrupt culture that fell, and fell very hard indeed. Ditto all the Eastern Bloc countries that had their own frontiers with the west. It was also built to keep people in, It would have done absolutely nothing to keep people out, as the US Special Forces proved to their satisfaction when they examined it.

 

You want a better example? Look to Hadrians wall, which was staffed by troops about 20-40 men every mile. And to do any damn good at all, you are going to have to staff this wall with border guards. I worked out that would need a force the minimum of 40000 men, maybe as high as 80000, twice or four times what you have today. It would be a relatively simple thing to increase the force on the border without building a wall at all. Yet its not being done, at which point you begin to think nobody really wants to spend any more money on this than one off embellishments.

 

Its worth remembering, the various Roman defensive walls only worked as long as someone was willing to fund its defence. And the Vandals eventually took Rome anyway.


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 32 minutes ago.

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#2448 Adam_S

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Posted 12 minutes ago

I think it's somewhat beholden upon a government to at least attempt to enforce its own laws and the integrity of its borders though.

 

There's some good evidence that at least some of the troops on Hadrian's Wall were foreign auxillia actually. One of the more interesting stories for the origin of the Knights of the Round Table myth I've heard is that they were a band of Iranian Cataphracts who ended up serving at the other end of the Empire. Maybe you could just import some Mexicans in on the cheap to man the wall.


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#2449 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 4 minutes ago

I think it's somewhat beholden upon a government to at least attempt to enforce its own laws and the integrity of its borders though.

 

There's some good evidence that at least some of the troops on Hadrian's Wall were foreign auxillia actually. One of the more interesting stories for the origin of the Knights of the Round Table myth I've heard is that they were a band of Iranian Cataphracts who ended up serving at the other end of the Empire. Maybe you could just import some Mexicans in on the cheap to man the wall.

Absolutely. I do think the whole argument has been dragged into a corner about walls, when it strikes me the real way out the problem is throwing more people and technology at it.  Even the Osties recognised that in Berlin Wall Mk4 they needed superior surveillance technology, but there is no discussion of that here. Its about a wall as rhetoric, not about how useful it will be in reality.

 

I mean yes, it needs improvement. But there are plenty of improvements that could be made to the border based on looking at what worked in history. That usually involved more people making more patrols. And who wants to admit that to do it right might need a force about half the size of the USMC? Kind of flies in the face of the logic of tax cuts.


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 3 minutes ago.

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