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The Fort Report On The Fitzgerald Collision


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#1 MiloMorai

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 0632 AM

http://cdrsalamander...-collision.html

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One big cluster fuck, be sure.


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#2 sunday

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 0742 AM

Comments are interesting. Depressing but interesting.


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#3 Special-K

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 1605 PM

"The probe exposes how personal distrust led the officer of the deck, Lt. j.g. Sarah Coppock, to avoid communicating with the destroyer’s electronic nerve center — the combat information center, or CIC — while the Fitzgerald tried to cross a shipping superhighway."

 

 

My understanding is that the two were giving each other the 'silent treatment' and so weren't communicating between the Bridge ans the CIC.  

 

 

 

-K


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#4 Special-K

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 1606 PM

Navy Times article on the matter:
 

 

https://www.navytime...nt-you-to-read/

 

 

 

 

-K


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#5 Burncycle360

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 1912 PM

Intangibles like these matter so much more than the average person realizes. I hope this brings it to light and sparks a change


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#6 Simon Tan

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 2243 PM

Blame PMS.


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#7 Skywalkre

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 0722 AM

Comments are interesting. Depressing but interesting.

 

No shit.  :huh:

 

Two that stuck out to me:

 

 

What do you expect in a post-modern DOD that pretends women are men and men are women and both are interchangeable and identical? The denial of reality is the root of most problems. If there is no reality, then there are no standards. If there are no standards, then there is no discipline.

 

 

I was having a pretty good day until I read this.
It is difficult for me to believe that the best example of a Burke crew exists in a fictional TV series.
Excuse me while I go throw up.


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#8 Ken Estes

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 0945 AM

There is no surprise. When the US abandoned conscription in 1973, it was based upon estimated future recruiting pools that would require 11% women accessed IOT fulfill the required numbers.

 

That personnel problems continue to exist in US forces comes as little surprise, and that was evident long before women entered combat billets.

 

The solution as always is training and personnel stability in units, but the 'manpower' doctrine consists only of matching faces to spaces. Go figure.

 

I thought the original Alien film depicted the ideal modern fighting team, 'marines' no less.


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#9 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 1014 AM

Before anyone starts nailing it at the door of women being the problem, its worth remembering the  Captain of HMS Duncan is Commander Eleanor Stack, and successfully managed the  approach of 17 Russian jets in the Med. She was even commended for it.

https://www.portsmou...-raid-1-8717885

So others aren't seemingly seeing a major problem here.

 

 

If they arent being relieved so they can go and relieve themselves, that surely points more to a manning problem? Manning and training if they dont know how to operate basic onboard systems.


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#10 DB

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 1040 AM

Blame PMS.

One might, but that's an easy cop-out. That ship appears to have been so broken thatonly incompetence or negligence could have concealed it from higher up the food chain.
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#11 Skywalkre

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 1317 PM

Even the worst units I heard about (and was in) while in the Army never came close to the levels that crew were apparently at.  So... how widespread is this?  Is it realistic that one ship can be an outlier and get that bad while the rest of the fleet is fine?  Or are there systemic cultural issues that manifested themselves in the worst possible way onboard the Fitzgerald that are widespread to a lesser degree across the Navy?  As someone who doesn't follow the Navy much how worrying should it be for the state of the Navy after reading this?


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#12 R011

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 1324 PM

Bottles of urine mean they dont have enough staff for wasroom breaks. So much vital equipment broken means insufficient spare parts. These are money issues. Combine that with obvious personnel and training issues and overtasking and we get accidents waiting to happen.
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#13 Nobu

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 1420 PM

Bottles of urine in an area of the ship where commissioned officers are present at all times is an indicator of what disciplinary and even sanitary conditions may be like in those areas of USN vessels where commissioned officers are not.

 

In a culture of cover-up, the question of what was left out of the report arises. 


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#14 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 1422 PM

Its good its all come out. Now they can get busy with putting it right.


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#15 Simon Tan

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 2122 PM

The previous CO should be binned. The problems clearly arose during his watch.


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#16 R011

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 2327 PM

Bottles of urine in an area of the ship where commissioned officers are present at all times is an indicator of what disciplinary and even sanitary conditions may be like in those areas of USN vessels where commissioned officers are not.

 

In a culture of cover-up, the question of what was left out of the report arises. 

 

Given how the ratings reacted when their ships collided, there doesn't seem to be much of a problem in those places. Exemplary stuff.


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#17 DB

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 0417 AM

 
Given how the ratings reacted when their ships collided, there doesn't seem to be much of a problem in those places. Exemplary stuff.

You don't get a reward for doing your job well in an emergency if the emergency happened in part because you were slack beforehand. It's difficult to see how this level of malaise could be restricted to the commissioned ranks.
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#18 Ken Estes

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 0446 AM

USN CPOs make up for almost everything.

 

The filthy CIC is easily explained by a warship knocked out of action, yet continuing to operate and fighting to save the ship, call for help, make reports and so forth. A ship at sea is a 24 hr operation, whether sanitary services are up or not.


Edited by Ken Estes, 17 January 2019 - 0515 AM.

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#19 DB

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 0519 AM

A good point, Ken. Tge question then becomes what was it like before the collision - I doubt that the attitudes and equipment states were consequences of the collision.

And how long was it between the threat of sinking being averted and Fort coming aboard?
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#20 Ken Estes

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 0958 AM

By then, they had probably ceased to be a crew and were pretty much spent, exhausted by their efforts, shocked by the condition of the ship, their home.. Their leaders were under fire from higher command and probably lacked the virtues of stoking the crew loyalty to the ship and shipmates, and thus 'turn to' with new vigor to be worthy of the ship and their service.


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