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Musketry Of 1914....


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#41 DougRichards

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 0654 AM

I was surprised by wiki's estimation of the number of SMLE manufactured: only 17 million rifles, in comparison with  6.1 million US WW2 carbines in a much shorter time.



#42 Colin

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 1332 PM

The Canadian Guy does a LOT more Pre WWI musketry videos. Martini Henry's, Sniders, Lee Metfords, etc. 


Note...proper use of relevant kit...

My spies tell me he is a Master Warrant Officer in a local Highland Infantry unit and is quite a character. 



#43 rmgill

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 1342 PM

Isn't it a requirement for Old Warrants to be characters? 



#44 Markus Becker

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 1438 PM

That was early on till they got enough Lee's though. Apparently they gave the whole job lot to Imperial Russia.


C&R Arsenal has two(?) episodes on Japanese rifles, some of which ended up in the military of one of the new Baltic States post war. Via the UK, not Imperial Russia. The stuff they were buying to free their first rate rifles for frontline service is amazing. Lever action Winchesters ok but single shot Remington Rolling Blocks?

#45 Harold Jones

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 1500 PM

Thank you Harold. There was actually a fairly substantial number of Arisakas purchased and issued. This following thread is quite informative.
 
http://1914-1918.inv...arisaka-rifles/

Thanks for the link, interesting site. Found this thread on the long Lee Enfield which was also issued for training use.
http://1914-1918.inv...ng-lee-enfield/

Edited by Harold Jones, 02 December 2017 - 1500 PM.


#46 Chris Werb

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 1955 PM

Isn't it a requirement for Old Warrants to be characters? 

 

My late father was one. He certainly had character.



#47 Chris Werb

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 1958 PM

 

Thank you Harold. There was actually a fairly substantial number of Arisakas purchased and issued. This following thread is quite informative.
 
http://1914-1918.inv...arisaka-rifles/

Thanks for the link, interesting site. Found this thread on the long Lee Enfield which was also issued for training use.
http://1914-1918.inv...ng-lee-enfield/

 

 

It never ceases to surprise me how many military Long Lees turn up without having been converted to charger loading. That would seem to be a simple, straightforward conversion with a high payoff in practical utility. I wonder if the surviving rifles had passed to civilian ownership prior to the conversions coming in (I'm not talking rifles made for civilian use or private purchase by officers etc.).



#48 Panzermann

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 2138 PM

I was surprised by wiki's estimation of the number of SMLE manufactured: only 17 million rifles, in comparison with  6.1 million US WW2 carbines in a much shorter time.

 

goes to show the smaller industrial capabilities of UK compared to the USA.



#49 DKTanker

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 2141 PM

C&R Arsenal for in depth design history of WW1 small arms.

https://youtu.be/pMs5RRTpEPw

I've been watching them for a couple of weeks now, the intermission to watch the demonstrator shoot does keep it interesting.  I've been hoping to see wardrobe malfunction, alas, has yet to happen.



#50 Panzermann

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 2147 PM

 

That was early on till they got enough Lee's though. Apparently they gave the whole job lot to Imperial Russia.


C&R Arsenal has two(?) episodes on Japanese rifles, some of which ended up in the military of one of the new Baltic States post war. Via the UK, not Imperial Russia. The stuff they were buying to free their first rate rifles for frontline service is amazing. Lever action Winchesters ok but single shot Remington Rolling Blocks?

 

 

 

the wholes C&Rsena series is quite amazing. I never had a grasp just how many different oddballs were used in ww1 out of pure necessitiy.

 

The Remington Rollng Block is actually a decent rifle. Onyl single shot, yes, but for guard duties and to free repeaters from police duties. Remember: the Gendarmerie is part of the french Armée de terre and uses often the same weapons. Or prison guards for POW or whatever is not directly at the frontline. Ironically, the french third republic had ordered black powder rolling blocks in the 70/71 war. And well the french were struggling for anything that shoots.

 

 

Odd that not a tube fed lever-action was manufactured, as the Lebel cartridge is designed for this actually.



#51 Panzermann

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 2149 PM

 

C&R Arsenal for in depth design history of WW1 small arms.

https://youtu.be/pMs5RRTpEPw

I've been watching them for a couple of weeks now, the intermission to watch the demonstrator shoot does keep it interesting.  I've been hoping to see wardrobe malfunction, alas, has yet to happen.

 

 

a southern girl knows how to behave. ^_^

 

 

actually her grin after shooting the varius rifles is always nice to see. Especially the Tankgewehr.



#52 Chris Werb

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 0710 AM


I was surprised by wiki's estimation of the number of SMLE manufactured: only 17 million rifles, in comparison with  6.1 million US WW2 carbines in a much shorter time.

 
goes to show the smaller industrial capabilities of UK compared to the USA.

Especially when you consider that SMLEs were also made in India and Australia. If you take in the no4 substantial numbers were made in the US and Canada, but not until very recently in the numbers in Australia.

#53 Markus Becker

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 0855 AM

 

Odd that not a tube fed lever-action was manufactured, as the Lebel cartridge is designed for this actually.

 

 

? AFAIK 8mm Lebel owes its shape to the hasty development of the rifle. Necking down an existing BP cartridge allowed the French to make use of components of existing rifles which saved a lot of time. I find it strange that they never replaced the tube mag with a box mag. That was doable as the Berthier and Chauchat demonstrate. 



#54 Panzermann

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 0904 AM

Odd that not a tube fed lever-action was manufactured, as the Lebel cartridge is designed for this actually.

 
? AFAIK 8mm Lebel owes its shape to the hasty development of the rifle. Necking down an existing BP cartridge allowed the French to make use of components of existing rifles which saved a lot of time. I find it strange that they never replaced the tube mag with a box mag. That was doable as the Berthier and Chauchat demonstrate.

 
 
see that ring around the primer pocket:
 
58306d1255813227-wwi-live-french-lebel-b

so that the tips did not impact on the primer ahead in the tube.


The french knew full well, that the Lebel rifle and the cartridge were bad and wanted to replace them several times, but budgets and wars intervened. But what do you exepct from a rifle and round thrown together in about half a year from the prototypes and developmental models they had to bring the first useable nitro cartridge into service.

#55 Markus Becker

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 0925 AM

I recently learned about the "ring". These days one associates tub mags with lever(or pump) action guns but the tube mag was one of the existing components they used. And it came from a bolt action rifle. The last German BP rifle had a tub mag too. 



#56 Panzermann

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 0948 AM

I recently learned about the "ring". These days one associates tub mags with lever(or pump) action guns but the tube mag was one of the existing components they used. And it came from a bolt action rifle. The last German BP rifle had a tub mag too. 

 

 

The swiss Vetterli rifle even has a King's gate.



#57 DougRichards

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 0440 AM

 

I was surprised by wiki's estimation of the number of SMLE manufactured: only 17 million rifles, in comparison with  6.1 million US WW2 carbines in a much shorter time.

 

goes to show the smaller industrial capabilities of UK compared to the USA.

 

 

May be the case but Canada and Australia also manufactured them.



#58 Markus Becker

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 1042 AM

Wasn't the carbine both easier to make because of the so much weaker ammo and (deliberately?) produced to a lower standard? I remember something about soft-isher metal being used for the barrels. 






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