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Germany Wants Agm-88E's


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#1 Dawes

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 1713 PM

If they're still using "B" models then it's probably time for an upgrade:

 

https://www.dsca.mil.../nspa_19-24.pdf


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#2 Chris Werb

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Posted 29 June 2019 - 0454 AM

Is AGM-88E integrated on Typhoon?
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#3 BansheeOne

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Posted 29 June 2019 - 0537 AM

I'm not sure. The original European successor to HARM was supposed to be the long-range French-German ARAMIS with ramjet propulsion and dual passive radar/IIR seeker. France dropped out in the late 90s, and the program was continued by Diehl BGT as ARMIGER. By 2001, the idea was to take the dual seeker and fit it to Meteor, but it seems to have died after 2005 when Italy decided on the lower-risk AGM-88E for its own Tornado ECRs. I guess this seals it.

 

Note that after the F-35 has been dropped from selection for a German Tornado follow-on, the F/A-18E/F - possibly including the Growler variant, since ECR is a capability Germany has announced to NATO for the defense planning from 2025 - still remains in the race against a further developed Eurofighter variant.


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#4 Dawes

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Posted 29 June 2019 - 1057 AM

How realistic is a Super Hornet/Growler purchase by Germany?


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#5 Panzermann

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Posted 30 June 2019 - 1931 PM

How realistic is a Super Hornet/Growler purchase by Germany?

 

I think it is the lowest risk option currently to replace Tornado. The Super Hornet pretty much covers the same spectrum as the Tornado. fighter-bomber, ECR, nuclear capable and there is also floating the  idea around to give the Marine their own anti-ship planes back. All roles that the Eurofighter needs to be developed into at the moment to replace the aging Tornados.


Edited by Panzermann, 30 June 2019 - 1947 PM.

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#6 Dawes

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Posted 30 June 2019 - 2126 PM

I take it that there would be some integration costs associated with IRIS-T, TAURUS, and other munitions?


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#7 urbanoid

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 0402 AM

 

How realistic is a Super Hornet/Growler purchase by Germany?

 

I think it is the lowest risk option currently to replace Tornado. The Super Hornet pretty much covers the same spectrum as the Tornado. fighter-bomber, ECR, nuclear capable and there is also floating the  idea around to give the Marine their own anti-ship planes back. All roles that the Eurofighter needs to be developed into at the moment to replace the aging Tornados.

 

 

Is F-35 out of the race?


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#8 Dawes

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 1919 PM

I think so. Buying the F-35 would not be helpful for the new French-German next generation fighter. 


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#9 GregShaw

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 2035 PM

I think so. Buying the F-35 would not be helpful for the new French-German next generation fighter. 

From the IOC 2075 program?


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#10 Josh

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 0712 AM

 

How realistic is a Super Hornet/Growler purchase by Germany?

 

I think it is the lowest risk option currently to replace Tornado. The Super Hornet pretty much covers the same spectrum as the Tornado. fighter-bomber, ECR, nuclear capable and there is also floating the  idea around to give the Marine their own anti-ship planes back. All roles that the Eurofighter needs to be developed into at the moment to replace the aging Tornados.

 

 

They would be able to get the Block III which would extend range and other capabilities as well. But I still bank on them buying Typhoon for made in EU reasons.


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#11 urbanoid

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 0717 AM

 

I think so. Buying the F-35 would not be helpful for the new French-German next generation fighter. 

From the IOC 2075 program?

 

Optimist


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#12 seahawk

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 0956 AM

How realistic is a Super Hornet/Growler purchase by Germany?

 

Not going to threaten the FCAS withthe French is a plus

2 engines - is a plus

probably affordable and in production - is a plus

fully developed SEAD version that would be the only one in Europe - big plus

able to carry nukes coming in 2025+ - another plus

has an Anti--ship missile - another plus that will not matter though

 

I am certain that at least 2/3rds of the buy will be F-18s


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#13 BansheeOne

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 1256 PM

The French-German (possibly -Spanish and other partners) Next Generation Fighter is planned to be available from ca. 2038. Of course multi-national projects have a habit to exceed planned IOC even more than already usual for complex military systems. Eurofighter was originally named "Fighter 90" and supposed to enter service in that decade, but after much back and forth (end of the Cold War etc.) delivery started only in 2003. Initial delivery of the A400M was delayed from 2008 to 2013. Adding at least five years to any planned IOC date is probably prudent.

 

At least the attempt is being made top avoid the mistakes of the past, like distributing workshare with a view to politics rather than technical competence, which caused no end of trouble with development of the A400M engines. MTU and Safran are currently sharing pre-development of the NGF powerplant, though the exact requirements haven't been fixed yet. For the timetable to work, they'll need a development contract in about five years, which at that point will likely include ITP of Spain.


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#14 DB

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Posted 12 July 2019 - 0843 AM

The NGF engine is likely to be a serious issue. For example, they cannot realistically use an upgraded M88, it apparently doesn't have the growth potential.

Also, I'll believe competency-based workshare when they deliver it.
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#15 sunday

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Posted 12 July 2019 - 0955 AM

The NGF engine is likely to be a serious issue. For example, they cannot realistically use an upgraded M88, it apparently doesn't have the growth potential.

Also, I'll believe competency-based workshare when they deliver it.

 

Hear, hear!

There were several aspects of that kind of theoretical workshare in the A400M program, like the engine part.


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