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#41 chino

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Posted 05 October 2015 - 1339 PM

During the last week of basic before "passing out" - as in graduation - all training had ceased. Our days were spent returning stores, cleaning up stuff etc. When you have hundreds of 18 year olds with nothing to occupy them, all kinds of mischief happen.

 

The unpleasant ones were mild violence. Fights occurred to settle scores, and then we also gang up on unpopular recruits that frequently got us into trouble during the last three months. The worse was "blanket party" where at night, we crawl up to someone sleeping and beat him up while someone wraps his head in a blanket. We avoid hitting the face so there can be less physical signs.

 

The victims complain, but the NCOs and officers did nothing as long as there were no serious injuries. THis was considered a tradition and after 3 months of hell, we had to let off steam.

 

Some get off with just having their faces drawn with permanent ink marker pens or toothpaste on their private parts.

 

The funniest one was where we had the one and only drinking bout at the other rank mess. We drank lots of beer as they costs less than a soft drink in civi street. After that, one guy - who wasn't unpopular - but just easy to victimise, was forcibly stripped completely naked outside the mess. Then we ran all the way back to our barracks with his clothes. It was a good 2km run even if you cut across the parade square. The victim had to run back as well, completely stark naked.


Edited by chino, 05 October 2015 - 1342 PM.

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#42 Junior FO

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Posted 06 October 2015 - 0503 AM

Swiss conscription is a bit different from the usual models. Instead of basic training and the rest of one’s term being one block, one goes home after basic and is called up for the annual refresher training with one’s active unit over the next few years.

 

The recruits would join school companies that were newly formed every January and July (summer being obviously more popular than winter) with the recruits being on duty Sunday evening to Saturday morning. The companies were always type pure (f.e. mortar recruits would join a mortar company, not a mortar platoon in an infantry company). Everybody in a school company, from recruit to the company commander, was doing their function for the first time. At company level there was a career officer + a career NCO to check/control the set up and running of the company/training regime, also conducting training sessions for NCO/Officers, but direct contact with the recruits was limited.

 

Corporals + Officers earning their grade were responsible for conducting most training based on detailed canned lesson plans which were adapted as needed.

 

The below is what a typical towed 12cm mortar basic training course looked like in the early 2000s. I did it 3 times so it’s a bit of a composite.

 

 Week 1:

Collecting uniforms/gear, medical, many class room sessions, gear inspections, basic military socialization (marching, learning grades, saluting etc.). Receive personal weapon (stays with you until you finish military service).

 

Week2:

Zero rifles + manipulation first 2 days, then 3 half days in the KD box (so about one 1 hour session per person per day, normally 2-3 mags), rest of the time spent on rifle manipulation, basic first aid, NBC (full monty), hand grenade practice (theory/dummy throws) and dry runs for 2 person fire and movement lane. First night exercise, usually a 7km march.

 

Week3:

Half the day in KD box throughout the week, 2 person fire and movement drill with live ammo (1 mag per run) and fire cracker hand grenades. More basic first aid and NBC. Hand grenade theory test and static live hand grenade throw by each recruit (not war ammo, thinner non pre fragmented shell and less powerful explosive type, but easily fatal if going off next to you). This was the moment of truth for the platoon leader since there was inevitably one guy in the platoon that did something weird. A recruit he really thought he couldn’t trust would be shuffled off to guard-kitchen help duty and kept there on the remedial dates. Every company had 1-2 such cases.  Friday was inspection by school commander + professional instructors of basic proficiency (KD Box, live fire and movement, basic first Aid, NBC). Another night exercise during the week, this time in platoon bivouacs, NVG’s for the guards, maybe demonstration of Thermal.

 

Week4:

Corporals out of NCO school join the company. Beginning of 3 week specialist training, company is reshuffled and new platoons formed for mortar gunners, fire control soldiers, observation assistants, anti-tank (Panzerfaust) gunners, drivers, medics. All time spent on specialist training aside from 2-3 half days of fire and movement (ex drivers, medics), now with the above live hand grenades and now normally with 2-3 mags. Maybe a 200m range or KD box session with gas mask on.

 

Week 5 and 6:

More or less as Week 4. Less or no fire and movement (depends on preference of company commander availability). Mortar training still inert, PzF get to use their 7.5mm inserts. Another night exercise, this time night march + bivouac, sometimes combined with a night session in KD box or on 200m range. 15km march.

 

Week 7:

Company again reshuffled, now into official TOE, so integration of specialists into platoons, normally one tried to keep the cores from week 1-3 platoons together. Week 7 is spent on drilling the complete platoons, practicing interplay of observers-fire control-mortars (radio language) and integrating the non-mortar specialists into the mortar crews. Last 2 days spent shooting 2cm fire crackers launched from inserts in the mortar tubes. In theory these would simulate the trajectory on 1:10 basis, in reality they were heavily affected by wind. Though still valuable practice because step up from inert rounds and after 3 weeks of dry run drills, those were becoming a pain. Night fire dry run.

 

Week 8:

Highlight of basic so far. Monday, company moves to range suitable for live mortar ammo. Tuesday – Thursday, live 12cm ammo firing. In theory we would have 20-30 rpg per day, in practice we used maybe 10-20 rpg, because of repeated delays due to something not working somewhere in the observer-FC-mortar chain. First live ammo night fire.

 

Week 9:

Complete break with everything above, now it’s all about guard duty. Since we are out in the country side from week 11-14, and we have no suitable place to lock up the mortar ammo+hand grenades, we need to have them in a temporary guarded compound (in practice a few containers on a parking lot surrounded by barbed wire) together with our other gear.  Regulations state the guard for the above has to be with live ammo. So, week spent on guard shooting curriculum and various guard training. Very much a joke, since a lot from the earlier KD sessions has to be unlearned.

 

Week 10:

Back to mortar drill with some guard or fire and movement or something else mixed in. Night fire practice. Preparation for visitors day on Friday, when family + friends come to visit the company. Thursday spent prepping and rehearsing the posts, normally a combination of a platoon firing the mortar inserts, a squad sized fire and movement live fire demo (either with fire cracker hand grenades or real ones, though the 200m safety distance for the real ones mean none of the spectators can see anything, so a bit pointless) and some static displays.

 

Week 11-14

As said above, move to an area with a range suitable for live mortar fire. Since there is no caserne nearby we move into the civil protection shelter of a village. Next few weeks spent on firing mortars, infantry exercises, a 40km march and the “Endurance Week”. Since we are 12cm mortars and hence motorized, the latter is nothing fancy, just regular shooting drill but with field logistics and accommodation/anemeties + some night exercises/alarms.  Dry weather makes the whole experience much more pleasant.

 

How much mortar ammo we get to use during these few weeks is heavily weather dependent. The firing areas for heavy mortars are all high up on mountain slopes, this means that we can’t shoot when there is low hanging cloud/inclement weather. Then one either does dry runs (low motivation at this stage of basic), praying for a hole to open up, or scrub the day and try to do something infantry orientated.

Of the 3 mortar platoons, on any given day 2 are doing live fire, while the platoon that is understrength due to the guard etc. does something with the simulators/blanks. What has happened is that some people hardly get any live rounds off because on their shooting days the weather is inevitably bad.

 

Mortar ammo allocation was quite ok, with 20-30 rpg per shooting day (4 guns per platoon) being probably the norm, with my record on a nice day being 50+, including a Night fire.

 

Week 15:

Move back to the caserne, clean, clean again, return material etc. etc. and going home.

 

 

The above system was more or less in place since the 60-70's but everything changed in 2005, with a totally new training structure/philosophy. Can't say much about it since I don't have any experience, but another reform will take place in the next 2 years, with many changes of 2005 being reversed or modified, so I guess the new system didn't work out too well.


Edited by Junior FO, 06 October 2015 - 0523 AM.

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#43 rohala

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 1850 PM

Very interesting! Thanks for taking the time to post. :) Interesting different approach to basic/specialist training.

 

As a mortar operator, and by extension also a rifleman, myself, I see that the difference in ammuntion consumption is chaotic. Obviously, since I served in the midst of an economic crisis with the Greek military suffering heavily, the ammo we consumed was abnormally little, but even pre-crisis I doubt out soldiers got to shoot nearly as much as you.

 

As part of my training I (not I per se, but the tube I was crew of) shot ~14 inert shells and ~5 or 6 live ones. The live ones were quite old (type M43A1 of 81mm caliber) and 1/3 of them were duds.


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#44 Simon Tan

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 2141 PM

How quickly could you train up a usable mortarman? I think we just had the 2 day TN rifleman special. Next Mortar and MG.
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#45 Gregory

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 2217 PM

Junior FO,

 

Do you feel like skills were retained sufficiently between training, or was there a significant degree of atrophy?


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#46 rohala

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 0437 AM

How quickly could you train up a usable mortarman? I think we just had the 2 day TN rifleman special. Next Mortar and MG.

Proper mortarman training is several weeks long.

"Usable" mortarman could be instructed to the basics in a few hours.

I guess, in case of emergency you could grab any random person, show him how to open crates and prepare rounds, or how to drop them in the tube, in a matter of minutes.


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#47 rohala

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 0759 AM

Here I try to sum up my experience, for anyone interested.

 

Τhe Greek conscript training system has gone a lot of changes and I cannot really trace them all. The current system is in place since 2012.

Nowadays conscripts stay for only a month in the basic training centers and most specialist training centers are inactive. Conscripts receive specialist training after they get posted to their units.

Since the length of service is 9 months or some 40 weeks, a conscripts service is broken into an initial period of 8 weeks of basic and "advanced" recruit training and 2-6 weeks of specialist training, with the rest 25-30 weeks following the operational training cycle of the unit/formation.

 

I didn't keep any log of my service so I have to write by memory.

 

week 1:

Reporting to recruit camp.

Medical examinations and other bereaucracy.

Placed to a recruit company of 250 recruits.

The company has one captain, some 10 NCOs and a few (5-10) conscript instructors.

No free time

 

weeks 2-3:

We learned basic stuff about military: regulations, hierarchy, some history, military prayers (yes!);

We did a lot of drill; We were shown several times how the right way to make the bed is;

Military training was almost non-existant: we learnt the basics of camouflage; we did crawling a few times, as well as other silent moving ways; we did an exercise for how to silently kill sentries (approach from the back, pull his chin, stab his lower lung, cushion the falling body -it was a funny drill since we practiced to each other); we weren't issued rifles, although during a couple of classes they brought out some and we took turns playing with them; we marched to a range some 7km away, shot 5 rounds at 100 meters and marched back; that was a hard march because we kept a pretty fast pace; I also got blisters

 

week 4:

Preparations for the oathing ceremony; rehearsals of the oath and many hours of parading daily; oathing ceremony on Friday, then short leave

 

week 5:

Return from leave. We learn our transfers. Some of us, incl. me, are loaded on buses and leave. I report to my battalion for the next 8 months, at 2 am on Thursday.

On Thursday morning we are issued our materials for the rest of our service: M16A2 rifle, helmet, gear etc. The next days are “acclimatization week”. We don’t do duties or training but we do a fair amount of chores.

 

weeks 6-8:

The “advanced” basic course. Basically, we did the common stuff that all people here mentioned. We were grouped into a training company. A captain was responsible for the training over the next 5 weeks, and was aided by one or two second lieutenants and some reserve officer cadets as well as several contract soldiers (corporals and sergeants).

We learned basic stuff about squad composition and formations. We learned patrol movement techniques and hand signal communication. We drilled a bit, also in the night for the patrol movements. We did several times dry fire and movement exercises (a lot of sweat!), both as attack as well as breaking contact (backwards). We were supposed to also do it with live ammo, but turned out there was not sufficient quantity (our captain was given only some 150 cartridges for 40 recruits). We went only three times to the range. Lack of ammo. We shot from prone position at 100 meters and observed our results. We shot a couple of times from standing position in “instinctive” shooting. We shot from prone position at 300 meters but we did not observe our results. Supposedly a reserve officer was collecting the results. We did a short two-hour map reading exercise. We made a 10 km march with load (25kg) and later a 20 km march. We were shown some basic demolition stuff, use of claymore mines. We were shown the available optical sights of the battalion: night vision, red dots, magnification sights. I don’t remember well –I never saw them again. We were shown the use of chemical masks, but I was absent. We did a lot of precision drills, now with rifle. We did some bayonet training in the air.

We did A LOT of guard duty (sentry duty). We slept very little. By the end of the course I was basically having illusions during guard duty. Others too.

 

weeks 9-10:

Mortar specialty training. First week on a 60mm mortar, second week on an 81mm mortar. Very basic stuff. We shot the inert rounds in front of the commander and wrote an exam.

 

weeks 11-40 (or so):

I was posted as clerk to an office, but it does not appear in any official document. Officially I was just a mortar operator. As a clerk I missed out a lot of training. What I did was:

 

-A course of rope climbing and knot tying

-Seven or so 20km marches. Also a “50km” (read 42km) march followed by a visit to the range. Marches were with 25kg load plus stuff (eg MAG machinegun, radio, medical pack).

ETA:During 20km marches we did one stop midway, for around 20 minutes. During our 42km march we did three stops, but they were short, ie 5-15 minutes. At the third stop I had barely enough time to change socks. The stops were not evenly spread. The distance between the third stop and the finish was very long -about 4.5 hours of marching. The march lasted a total of 10 hours. At the end I had run out of water and felt dizzy. Approaching the finish, we were chanitng songs. A fucking reserve officer cadet kept yelling at me for not being lively enough... (repressed memories coming to the surface...)

-Three (separate) weeks of night fighting exercises. Basically convoy ambushes, raids on enemy facilities and map reading exercises.

-Two “shooting” weeks. Basically we mortarmen prepared to shoot the mortars, but the first shooting was cancelled. In the second shooting we went to the range with 4 mortars (our platoon) and 24 shells. Other specialties shot their rifles, machineguns, threw live grenades and whatnot. As part of the first we attacked on a hill as a rifle company. I realized the complexity of company tactics, which is more than just the sum of squad tactics.

-One week of “small unit tactics”. I did a fire and movement run with 20 live rounds in two magazines (so that we had to change mag)

-One week of built-up areas fighting. Room clearing, corridor movements and such.

 

Things I missed:

-I missed the field training week because I was left behind to do guard duty. Most conscripts did.

-One of the built-up areas fighting courses, including its intereresting final phase (attack on an enemy camp)

-Water obstacle crossing course

-Defensive tactics week

-anti-aircraft tactics week (I am curious what that was)

-demolitions week

-first-aid week

-mine warfare week

-winter living week: this was cancelled due to lack of snow

-amphibious raiding week

-other stuff that I cannot recall

 

 

Facilities were basic but not nearly as bad as Chino's Taiwan experience ( :lol: ). Our problem was that a lot of stuff was broken and there was no prospect of repair. Thus even though we had normal "turkish" toilets (a hole in the floor), we did not avoid the "shitmen" (equivalent of snowmen, ie piles of stacked shit). There was typically no warm water, and people in the winter didn't wash for weeks. Heating was very little, temperature in the barracks in the winter was constantly in single digits. The barracks felt always filthy even though we cleaned every day. We had lots of toads (!) in the summer. In the summer we had a huge bed-bug problem. Thankfully bed-bugs die out in low temperatures. We constantly had rats, despite our best efforts to kill them. They just kept appearing.

As I said earlier in this thread, we did lots of guard duty. Guard duty would be (most often) sentry duty, followed by barracks guard duty, patrol duty, rapid-reaction-group duty. There was also kitchen duty which I avoided completely, basically because I was 26 years old, and the NCO responsible for duties decided to spare me from that. I was not above garbage collection duty however. The mess halls produce A LOT of rotting garbage.


Edited by rohala, 08 October 2015 - 0820 AM.

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#48 Junior FO

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 0801 AM

Very interesting! Thanks for taking the time to post. :) Interesting different approach to basic/specialist training.

 

As a mortar operator, and by extension also a rifleman, myself, I see that the difference in ammuntion consumption is chaotic. Obviously, since I served in the midst of an economic crisis with the Greek military suffering heavily, the ammo we consumed was abnormally little, but even pre-crisis I doubt out soldiers got to shoot nearly as much as you.

 

As part of my training I (not I per se, but the tube I was crew of) shot ~14 inert shells and ~5 or 6 live ones. The live ones were quite old (type M43A1 of 81mm caliber) and 1/3 of them were duds.

 

I think we were lucky due to the post CW drawdown reduction in army size and the decomissioning of many mortar forts. Switzerland had huge war stocks of ammo and as late as 2000 we were still mostly using mortar ammo that was produced before the early 90's.

 

Late 2000's one did a hear of some ammo types being tight, though I guess relative to what was available until then and I've never heard of anything close to what you experienced.

 

How quickly could you train up a usable mortarman? I think we just had the 2 day TN rifleman special. Next Mortar and MG.

 

Only 2 jobs really need training. ?Gun layer? responsible for the sight, and the gun commander (also a soldier) who's on the radio with FC getting the fire elements. A week should be enough in both cases. However this means more or less one on one instruction and the trainee working his job on the equipment for several hours every day.

 

However getting the mortar set up and packing it up in the desired times takes 3-4 people who know what they are doing and actually takes longer to get right.

 

Junior FO,

 

Do you feel like skills were retained sufficiently between training, or was there a significant degree of atrophy?

 

Up to platoon level, if the skill is ingrained and the refresher was done every year, the people were up to speed in a day. If the refresher training only happens every 2-3 years then it takes at least a week to reach the same standard. Atrophy accelerates significantly with time.

 

Until the 2004 reforms the general philosophy was to train specialists working within specialized units. I think we had at least half a dozen different kinds of infantry (foot, mountain, motorized, mechanized, security, fortress protection, mobilization area protection etc.) each with training and the refreshers tailored to their expected environment/job.

 

However, as part of the 2004 reforms, it was decided to try and copy the international model of everybody being able to do everything and infantry types were reduced to motorized/mechanized with motorized becoming nominally multirole (mechanized stayed focused on combined arms). In parallel, the reduction in infantry battalions has led to every second year being taken up by security duty, disaster relief, etc. So infantry basic training became broader but less deep, and conventional company level training only gets done every second year with company live fire exercises being something that only happens every 3-4 years. The atrophy is very visible. This affects mortars less, since if possible they are detached to do their thing independently. However the mortar company is normally used to top up the infantry companies as needed if on security duty.

 

It is also nearly impossible to train up somebody on a new system/equipment/procedure within a 3 week refresher, it doesn't really stick and decays quickly. So when new equipment or training procedure etc. is implemented, it takes several years until it can be considered as implemented, de facto only once most of the unit had it as part of basic.


Edited by Junior FO, 08 October 2015 - 0818 AM.

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#49 Stefan Fredriksson

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 0842 AM

Conscript 86-87. Duration 10 months.
First 1-2 months were basic, learn to shoot, march, raise tent, make bed, be on time...
Following 5-6 months were more training in your speciality, for me communication.
Last 2-3 months placed in a "real" unit.
Funnily enough much of our practicing was live - we hunted for submarines or suspicious divers in the archipelago.

Edited by Stefan Fredriksson, 09 October 2015 - 0851 AM.

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#50 bd1

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 0935 AM

could you write more about your experiences and system? i had one acquaintance who had served in sov. army and later , as NCO of EDF, visited swedish milit. (mid 90´s i guess). he said that he was at first non-plussed when the whole army went home for weekend, but what followed on monday morning till friday evening  left his jaw drop on the floor, in most positive sense.

 

heh, when i visited my relatives in sweden 1993, on mantelpiece of my host was a picture of him, a refugee´s son, standing in honorary guard in front of royal palace. white belts, helmet, CG SMG , and , since it was in early 70´s , hairnet+ponytail :D

 

then i met my cousins , one of them had just finished his service in arctic rangers. unfortunately i did´nt ask him about his experiences


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#51 Stefan Fredriksson

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 1014 AM

I wasn't in an ordinary infantry-unit, but part of the coastal-artillery(marine). I think our basic was pretty much like everyone else's. What I remember most from it, except for the percieved ordeal, was that I learned to be on time. We used SMG as primary weapon (k-pist M/45B), can't remember figures but we did not shoot too much. Got to throw one live hand-grenade. But no formal introduction to for instance machine-guns or AT-weapons. We got to blow up some rocks, tree-stumps and stuff, but mostly to be aware of the most basic handling of explosives.

The longest we walked was 30 km in one stretch, something everyone had to do. If you did "jägar"(closest thing to rangers we have)-duty, you of course had to carry more, walk longer, change underwear more seldom etc.

 

The officer-corps consisted of mainly employed career-officers. They were supported by cadets, aiming to be real officers one day.

In peace-time a major commanded a battery(company) and a captain a platoon. Had we mobilized, the major had commanded a battalion, and the captain a battery(company). Not sure if thes was the norm in the rest of the defence.

We did not have NCOs per se. The conscripts were promoted (after a certain time with reasonable results) to corprals, sergeants or "conscript ensigns".

But at least for us this was more a paper-thing. You never got to command much. I think this system was a bit different in an ordinary infantry-unit, ie that the group/platoon-leaders actually commanded.

 

During basic- and speciality-training we were a platoon. Once that was done, we were separated and sent to other units (still within coastal artillery) that needed our services. I for instance got placed in the staff of a ranger company.

But my war-time placement were actually somewhere else, which I cannot really remember.

 

I think, due to the fact that we chased sub-marines for real (if they were for real is debated :) ) kept us out in the field quite a lot. I have no exact figures, but I guess I lived in tent or outside for about 1,5 month? The last field-exercise, which really was two combined into one, lasted for 18 (17? 19?) days straight.

 

But yes, generally you worked monday-friday, with evening/night-service at least 2-3 of the nights. Most weekends were free.

When summer came, we had reached our educational goals, and money was running out, so we got one (two?) extra weeks off. :)

 

We did get pay, sort of.

What pissed us off a bit, was that the money spent on food for a conscript, was *less* than for a prison inmate... go figure.

 

 

EDIT:

Almost forgot. We had in our battery(company) two female 2nd lieutenants, and one female cadet.


Edited by Stefan Fredriksson, 12 October 2015 - 1017 AM.

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#52 chino

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 1358 PM

Mother of NSF who died: It seems the price I paid has not been enough

The mother of Dominique Sarron Lee posted a response on Facebook after her family’s lawsuit against the Singapore Armed Forces was struck out by the High Court and the family ordered to pay legal costs of $22,000 to the defendants.

Lee, 21, a private in the SAF, died in 2012 after an allergic reaction to zinc chloride fumes from smoke grenades used during a military exercise. His platoon commander Najib Hanuk was found to have detonated six smoke grenades instead of the limit of two specified in safety regulations.

Lee’s family sued the SAF, Najib, and safety officer Chia Thye Siong last year. Their lawyer, Irving Choh, argued that there was a contract between Lee and the SAF, which the SAF had breached.

All three defendants applied to have the lawsuit struck out, relying on a provision in the Government Proceedings Act to argue that they had immunity against suits of negligence if a death occurred during service.

During a coroner’s inquiry in 2013, it was also reported that State Coroner Imran Abdul Hamid highlighted the fact that during a pre-enlistment medical check-up, Lee under-declared his history of asthma.

According to media reports, Judicial Commissioner Kannan Ramesh agreed in a closed-door hearing the Act covered Lee’s case and dismissed the suit, and ruled the family had to bear the costs for the lawsuit.

“Dom, how can I possibly pay them for taking away your life? Where is the justice? It seems, the price I paid has not been enough,” Lee’s mother, Felicia Seah, said on Facebook in a post written to her son.

Seah added, “Dom, in these past 3+ years, I have been worn-down, beaten and defeated by the very government I taught you to trust; worn-down, beaten and defeated by the very system I counselled you to have faith in; worn-down, beaten and defeated by the very people I advised you to respect and honour.

“Dom, forgive me. I taught you wrong.”


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#53 JWB

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 1219 PM

Does this stuff happen in conscript armies?

 

"They put us through hell...."

 

 

Former Pvt. Thomas Jacob Weaver was in bed late one night, near the end of his three months at Marine Corps boot camp, when several drill instructors burst into his platoon’s room. Many of them smelled like they had been drinking whiskey, he said, and they ordered the recruits to crawl over cement floors covered in laundry detergent.

Soon after, the instructors left the room and then abruptly returned. One of them demanded to know where he could find “the terrorist.” Weaver knew immediately who he was talking about: a fellow Marine recruit who was Muslim.

“We heard the door slam, and then we heard screaming, and then we heard loud noises, and then they left,” Weaver said. “And then I saw [the recruit] come back half-naked, and some of us ran over to check on him. And he told us that they had stuck him in the dryer for a couple of minutes and let him spin.”

https://www.washingt...isrc=nl_az_most


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#54 Skywalkre

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 1232 PM

Saw that and some other accounts in the news the other day.  It's not supposed to be happening at all.  Some folks are likely going to find their careers coming to a quick end (if not facing prosecution).


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#55 Yama

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 1914 PM

I don't think there is much difference between conscript and professional armies in that respect. There is always going to be idiots, and booze, and idiots w/ booze.


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#56 Panzermann

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 0751 AM

I don't think there is much difference between conscript and professional armies in that respect. There is always going to be idiots, and booze, and idiots w/ booze.


Yup. Abuses happen from time to time. Sad but true. To counter this you need better training and education of Nco and junior officers so they know what is okay and what is not.
Really, calling a fellow marine a terrorist because of his faith and abusing him shows how dumb these drill instructors are. They should be instantly fired without pension benefits to encourager les autres.


In Germany there is an appointee by Bundestag that you can report everything that is bad in the Bundeswehr. And his annual report is a long litany of problems. Rarely abuses, but bad equipment, lack of equipment, too high workload...

Or you can tell the military chaplain who stands intentionally outside the chain of command in the Bundeswehr and thus are also a neutral person that can look into things. And help, because he knows all the important people.
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#57 Stefan Fredriksson

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 0250 AM

....

Or you can tell the military chaplain who stands intentionally outside the chain of command in the Bundeswehr and thus are also a neutral person that can look into things. And help, because he knows all the important people.


Interesting. Can you contact him/her directly? Also, can matters be kept secret, ie. as who reports the wrong?
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#58 rohala

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Posted 25 December 2018 - 1426 PM

1rnzir_neesoon.jpg
1rnzir_neesoon2.jpg
 
The camp where I did my 3-month basic in Dec 1983 is the School of Basic Military Training (SBMT). At the time it was housed in a camp called Nee Soon Barracks. It was an old leftover from the British colonial troops built in the 1930's as were most of our camps. Up till 1970's, it housed the New Zealand troops (where the above photos came from). It even had a church but of course, after Singapore took it over all religious symbols were taken down. We have Malay Muslims, non-christian Chinese and Indian Hindus in our ranks. The officer mess was a stately British colonial building fit for a king. During WW2 the Japanese took over this and all other camps to house the Allied soldiers as POWs where many died. So all our camps are pretty haunted.

 
 

I spent two months here:
kasarna-71bd40b59f6e.jpg
And rest here:
pantelej1.jpg

I came across a video on youtube where an American soldier shows a Greek barracks from a 2017 exercise. Much to my amazement it was the same camp that I spent 8 months of my conscript service, in an identical barracks which is some 150 meters away from the one shown in the video. Curiously, the barracks shown in the video was in use in my time, and housed the 72 and 73 companies, which even if understrength they still had several dozens of personnel. I can only guess that they moved the Greek soldiers elsewhere in order to give the building to the Americans. I notice also that they removed the lockers. Normally the corridors to the left and right of the main entrance are lined with metal lockers (cabinets? I fon't know the proper term) which the soldiers use to keep their personal stuff. Another thing I notice is that the Americans keep their weapons unlocked. The Greek army uses the black metallic contraptions which you can see in the video, to lock the personal issued weapons. In the case of the 72 company these would belong to three types: M16 rifles, M4 carbines and M4 carbines and M4 carbines with the M203 grenade launcher. The rest of the small arms would be locked in the armoury.


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