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Last Season Of Pubes And Dragons (Aka Game Of Thrones)


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#41 rmgill

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 1605 PM

Maintaining command and control in such a battle has to be very hard. Once he went off to ride the dragon (too substantial an asset to not be used), it was in the hands of those at Winterfell and pretty much the Onion Knight up on the walls with various knights leading groups on the ground. 

Also, the traditional role of cavalry in such a battle would be very hard. Charging the army of the ice wights in the rear wouldn't have the same effect it would with a normal human force.

I do rather think they'd have been better with hoardings on the walls and more men on the walls rather than outside the walls trying to stand up to the tide. Rotate men off the walls to rest while they play whack a mole with obsidian blades.

That also means that the gate could be blocked with extra beams to try to deal with ice wight giants.

Thinking on it, they really needed to take a page from Kambei.

seven_map.jpg

Every castle needs a hole to let the enemy into in order to kill him. 
The should have had a way  of letting the ice wights into the court yard to kill them with obsidian. Swinging bars with obsidian or something. Pole arms or what not and ways to pour oil over the walls. 


Edited by rmgill, 29 April 2019 - 1618 PM.

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#42 Simon Tan

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 1903 PM

Who died best? Jorah and Theon for redemption. The little girl Thane for pathos. GRRM would not be so kind.
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#43 Adam_S

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 0704 AM

Of all the smegging stupid battles in Game of Thrones, that has to be the most utterly pants of the lot. OK, I get it that they have to lose so that Arya can save the world with some kind of epic Deus Ex ending, but really when the people you're supposed to care about are so utterly devoid of any thought processes that you kind of end up rooting for the Night King, really what's the point?

 

So, we're outnumbered by a gigantic zombie army. I know, let's get our crack barbarian cavalry and send them off into the darkness, alone and unsupported to get slaughtered. Next, let's get the rest of our troops who are actually any good and build a big rampart of flaming stuff, spikes and dragonglass. Instead of putting the elite pikemen behind that barrier, let's put them in front so that they can get slaughtered and are utterly unable to retreat back into our massive fortress that's right fucking behind them. What an awesome way to raise the morale of your infantry. Let's also piss away two dragons in random acts of utter fuckwittery oh and for good measure, let's take our last line of defense, the walls of Winterfell themselves and put some dragonglass all over them. Wait that sounds like a good idea, so we'd better try and fuck that up somehow. I know, let's just put it on the top of the battlements (crenelations?) and not on the gaps in between. You know, the bits that somebody is likely to try and crawl through if they were trying to scale the walls. Mind you, it probably doesn't matter by that point because we've pissed away all our best fighters outside the castle and don't have enough men to properly man the barricades anyway. If we did, we could have used them to, I don't know, chuck huge lumps of dragonglass and flaming pitch over the zombies. Just as well we didn't think of that - we might have actually won the fucking battle.

 

Oh and maybe if we hadn't pissed away all our cavalry, we could have hidden some of them in the massive forest next to where the white walkers are standing and wiped some of them out too. Just as well we didn't do that, isn't it?

 

Bunch of utter fucking pillocks.

 

Also, this.

 

https://www.youtube....hd5FCGCwcjhrOdA


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#44 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 0708 AM

The Total War Franchise has a lot to answer for. Today, everyone is a half decent general. :D


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#45 Soren Ras

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 0914 AM

Of all the smegging stupid battles in Game of Thrones, that has to be the most utterly pants of the lot. OK, I get it that they have to lose so that Arya can save the world with some kind of epic Deus Ex ending, but really when the people you're supposed to care about are so utterly devoid of any thought processes that you kind of end up rooting for the Night King, really what's the point?

 

So, we're outnumbered by a gigantic zombie army. I know, let's get our crack barbarian cavalry and send them off into the darkness, alone and unsupported to get slaughtered. Next, let's get the rest of our troops who are actually any good and build a big rampart of flaming stuff, spikes and dragonglass. Instead of putting the elite pikemen behind that barrier, let's put them in front so that they can get slaughtered and are utterly unable to retreat back into our massive fortress that's right fucking behind them. What an awesome way to raise the morale of your infantry. Let's also piss away two dragons in random acts of utter fuckwittery oh and for good measure, let's take our last line of defense, the walls of Winterfell themselves and put some dragonglass all over them. Wait that sounds like a good idea, so we'd better try and fuck that up somehow. I know, let's just put it on the top of the battlements (crenelations?) and not on the gaps in between. You know, the bits that somebody is likely to try and crawl through if they were trying to scale the walls. Mind you, it probably doesn't matter by that point because we've pissed away all our best fighters outside the castle and don't have enough men to properly man the barricades anyway. If we did, we could have used them to, I don't know, chuck huge lumps of dragonglass and flaming pitch over the zombies. Just as well we didn't think of that - we might have actually won the fucking battle.

 

Oh and maybe if we hadn't pissed away all our cavalry, we could have hidden some of them in the massive forest next to where the white walkers are standing and wiped some of them out too. Just as well we didn't do that, isn't it?

 

Bunch of utter fucking pillocks.

 

Aye. I think Jon Snow exudes tactical buffoonery in an ever-increasing contagious aura of incompetence that will gradually engulf the world. Tyrion Lannister fully succumbed last season, for example.

 

How else to explain pissing away the entire Dothraki cavalry in a completely unsupported charge. I suppose before they got their swords enflamed, the plan was to just attack the darkness with no way to see anything? At least Melissandre gave the idiots back at Winterfell a way to spot when their idiotic plan to kill the Dothraki succeeded.

 

Jon Snow is, unfortunately, protected by world class plot armor, so any military that wants to protect its ability to deploy sound tactics would do better to avoid trying to kill him and instead pour all research into making sure he is kept long away from them.  If you are lucky enough to live in a world without Jon Snow, give thanks and make sure no contact is ever established. Do not develop time travel or interdimensional gateways. Developing interstellar travel could reasonably be opposed on the basis of avoiding any potential future contact with a Jon Snow (although it would be handy to get away from him if he should suddenly appear in your midst).  Something to ponder, I think.

 

--

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#46 Paul G.

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 1037 AM

Meh, permit a devils advocate. the whole northern army deployment was a delay tactic to draw out the Night King. I think they realized from their earlier expedition up north there was no way to defeat the Wight horde army to army. Winterfell was hardly a fortress, the 20 ft walls were easily breached and Unsullied would not have been able to deploy tactically inside the fire trench. Using Bran as bait was the only way. In fact, some theories claim the Night King could only be "uncreated" by Valarian steel near a godswood tree. Again all else was just a delay/diversion.
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#47 Mobius

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 1118 AM

Of all the smegging stupid battles in Game of Thrones, that has to be the most utterly pants of the lot. OK, I get it that they have to lose so that Arya can save the world with some kind of epic Deus Ex ending, 

 

Chick Ex Machina.   Told ya.


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#48 Ivanhoe

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 1735 PM

Aye. I think Jon Snow exudes tactical buffoonery in an ever-increasing contagious aura of incompetence that will gradually engulf the world. Tyrion Lannister fully succumbed last season, for example.


Keep in mind that Jon leads by example, rather than tactical wit, so as giant set-piece battle has to expose him as being incapable of generalship.

Plus, the way he's acting, there's a certain battle fatigue or ennui going on.
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#49 Simon Tan

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 1735 PM

I was hoping for Bran to stand up and knife the Night King. And turn out to be Arya.
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#50 Skywalkre

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 2003 PM

Everything I've read makes me glad I decided against paying for HBO's streaming service just to watch this final season.


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#51 Harold Jones

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 2027 PM

I'm on the road for work and the hotel has HBO so I watched it. Didn't find the battle all that engaging but it was more the way it was shot. It was too dark to see much but when the night king raised a new wave it was kind of an "oh fuck" moment that really brought home the only way to win was to end him.
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#52 Adam_S

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 2028 PM

Everything I've read makes me glad I decided against paying for HBO's streaming service just to watch this final season.

 

Visually it's very good, and the bewbs are back this season, but the characters are becoming increasingly annoying and the plot is kinda shallow. It's probably best to just disengage your brain and enjoy all the pretty CGI.


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#53 sunday

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 2032 PM

tp6ztuueffv21.png

 

One of the GoT groups in reddit, Freefolk, is quite hilarious.


Edited by sunday, 30 April 2019 - 2033 PM.

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#54 TonyE

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 2047 PM

Meh, permit a devils advocate. the whole northern army deployment was a delay tactic to draw out the Night King. I think they realized from their earlier expedition up north there was no way to defeat the Wight horde army to army. Winterfell was hardly a fortress, the 20 ft walls were easily breached and Unsullied would not have been able to deploy tactically inside the fire trench. Using Bran as bait was the only way. In fact, some theories claim the Night King could only be "uncreated" by Valarian steel near a godswood tree. Again all else was just a delay/diversion.

 

 Historical tactics will not work against the army of the dead due to the inhuman nature of said army (basically it is like the game AI with instant cheatcodes), it will not route, waver, stop or retreat like a human army of the era would.


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#55 sunday

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 2057 PM

 

Meh, permit a devils advocate. the whole northern army deployment was a delay tactic to draw out the Night King. I think they realized from their earlier expedition up north there was no way to defeat the Wight horde army to army. Winterfell was hardly a fortress, the 20 ft walls were easily breached and Unsullied would not have been able to deploy tactically inside the fire trench. Using Bran as bait was the only way. In fact, some theories claim the Night King could only be "uncreated" by Valarian steel near a godswood tree. Again all else was just a delay/diversion.

 

 Historical tactics will not work against the army of the dead due to the inhuman nature of said army (basically it is like the game AI with instant cheatcodes), it will not route, waver, stop or retreat like a human army of the era would.

 

 

I could see a Macedonian or Hoplite phalanx working, with all the men in a file working together. Especially with obsidian spearheads, and fighting behind barricades, Nagashino-style. The Unsullied were arrayed like Renaissance pikemen, but without long pikes, and with shields. Only counter to that would be dragonfire, but there is a 2-to-1 superiority on flying reptile assets.

 

No wildfyre used, either.


Edited by sunday, 30 April 2019 - 2058 PM.

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#56 rmgill

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 2308 PM

Yeah, the open formations of the Unsullied are part of the problem. They need to be TIGHT and they've never been shown as operating that way. I blame the fight 'choreography'. 


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#57 Adam_S

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 0029 AM

Actually, on the subject of the Unsullied...

 

unsullied-spears.png

 

While they're clearly meant to resemble a Greek style phalanx, their equipment isn't right. In particular, if they're meant to be hoplites then their shields are far too small.

 

9112c40a2f9d491518ca4810ed19c046.jpg

 

A hoplite phalanx is meant to be able to lock its shields together and the Unsullied don't appear to ever do that.

 

Their shields look more like those carried by later Macedonian style phalanxes. These though are equipped with a much longer sarissa which they hold underarm, unlike the Unsullied who seem to fight with their spears overarm like hoplites.

 

p1040952_zps40b16a08.jpg

 

When the undead attack, you can see the problem caused by the combination of a relatively open order, small shield and lack of mutual support from the second rank backwards with the end result that the zombies just go straight through them. This is what should have been facing the zombie hordes.

 

2d0d7a7528da3016d087d6f34e7acf48.jpg

 

Edited for less stupid picture of a hoplite.


Edited by Adam_S, 01 May 2019 - 0041 AM.

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#58 Adam_S

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 0037 AM

Proper hoplites.

 

9d6db1a2cfdfbd39f9d63e86fba702d1.jpg

 

Slap a load of dragonglass bits all over those shields and put them BEHIND a rampart and a ditch full of burny stuff and more dragonglass. Put a load of archers, dragonglass slingers or even javelin throwers in behind them with the Dothraki cavalry in support to counter-charge any breakthroughs and you're starting to get somewhere.


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#59 rmgill

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 0102 AM

Yep. That makes more sense. 


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#60 Soren Ras

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 0118 AM

This is by far my favorite comment

YTWP4P-a7AYwKsSB0sCRpoCTclQeMPz6mkqCPJKx

 

 

 

--

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