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More Chieftain's Hatchiness


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#101 Coldsteel

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 0207 AM

Crusader part 2 is out, the Chieftain is somewhat less than impressed with certain aspects of the interior ^_^ :

 

Looks like the gunner is supposed to have a seat, or at least one is visible in the stowage sketches. Also a firewall, although photos show access doors suggesting it can be closed off but with a large curved opening, missing a plug? Given the presence of a 75mm breech ring and the sparsely populated interior, that vehicle is certainly an outlier, even for a museum tank.

 

I always thought that those two rectangles in the turret sides were just shuttered openings/pistol ports, but they're not, there's some kind of vision device fitted there. And Nick didn't tell us what they were!


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#102 Markus Becker

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 0627 AM

Crusader part 2 is out, the Chieftain is somewhat less than impressed with certain aspects of the interior ^_^ :

 

 

In the sense of fairness they upgunned the tank beyond for what it was designed for. 


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#103 whelm

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 0844 AM

Defiantly a Ram 1 model, you have the doors and mg turret.

 

Both features found on the Ram II as well until they were deleted. Doors first Cupola later.


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#104 rmgill

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 1626 PM

I always thought that those two rectangles in the turret sides were just shuttered openings/pistol ports, but they're not, there's some kind of vision device fitted there. And Nick didn't tell us what they were!


The vision device is most likely and anti-splinter screen (essentially a thick, laminated glass block) so the crew can look out and not lose their eyes to bullet splash. The lever likely controls the opening of the cover. It looks very derivative of what was on my Dingo and what is on the driver's area of the Humber and Daimler Armored Cars.


Edited by rmgill, 17 August 2018 - 1627 PM.

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#105 DogDodger

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 2150 PM

This one. Museum research noted it is M3A1, served with British in both Africa and Italy before being transferred to British equipped Yugoslav 1st Armored Brigade in 1944. It is missing a lot of small parts, but all major parts were inside, so I think it did not have turret basket originally. Is it possible that Brits removed it?

If their research indicates it's an M3A1 then it must be, but as I understand it the presence of a turret basket and power traverse is part of the defining differences between a Stuart Hybrid and an M3A1. Sounds like an interesting vehicle.
 

Given the position of the driver and co-driver directly under the turret in the M3, I can't see how you could have a basket.  What am I missing?

The turret basket showed up in the M3A1. Note the power traverse hardware under the turret seats; as mentioned earlier, on the M5 the power traverse was moved to under the turret floor since the propeller shaft was so much lower in the M5.
m3a1stuartcross.jpg
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#106 shep854

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 2225 PM

Thanks, DogDodger.  Looking at that schematic, I'm still having trouble understanding how the driver and co- kept out of the way of the turret.  :huh:  They obviously did, though.  :P  Hopefully, Nick will do a series of videos on the M3 Light.


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#107 DogDodger

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 2242 PM

There certainly wasn't much room:

(The turret seats and traversing mechanisms seem to be missing on this tank.)
zf9JJ3I.jpg

(A more complete example.)
5NWWoEi.jpg

Edited by DogDodger, 17 August 2018 - 2244 PM.

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#108 shep854

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 2351 PM

Thanks again! Those really help!
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#109 DougRichards

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Posted Yesterday, 12:49 AM

 

Crusader part 2 is out, the Chieftain is somewhat less than impressed with certain aspects of the interior ^_^ :

 

 

In the sense of fairness they upgunned the tank beyond for what it was designed for. 

 

 

So true, so a comparison with and between a 2pdr and 6pdr / 75mm Valentine would be interesting.

 

Also it should be remembered that a turret based on the Crusader's was used on the Staghound MkIII that had either the 6pdr or the 75mm based on the 6pdr.  The turrets were not identical, and perhaps parts from a Staghound were used to complete the Crusader that Nick has reviewed, 


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#110 bojan

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Posted Yesterday, 06:24 AM

If their research indicates it's an M3A1 then it must be, but as I understand it the presence of a turret basket and power traverse is part of the defining differences between a Stuart Hybrid and an M3A1. Sounds like an interesting vehicle.

 

Note however that M3A1s were salvaged from a vehicle dumps in Italy (as were some other vehicles, M8 and M7 HMCs*), and it is possible that it was missing turret basket before being transferred to Yugoslavia.

*Unlike M3A1/A3 that were ex-British, M8 and M7 were ex-US. There is even a pic of one that kept US registration number:

2d6tmja.jpg


Edited by bojan, Yesterday, 06:29 AM.

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#111 Tim the Tank Nut

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Posted Yesterday, 09:49 AM

Is that the M3A1 that used to be at the Patton Museum?

They had one with a Guiberson diesel and one that was gas.

I don't think I realized that all the M3A1 had a basket.  None of the straight M3 did, right?


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#112 Markus Becker

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Posted Yesterday, 12:21 PM

Quack, quack:

https://youtu.be/0t8Fk7Fszwc
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#113 DogDodger

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Posted Yesterday, 12:26 PM

Note however that M3A1s were salvaged from a vehicle dumps in Italy (as were some other vehicles, M8 and M7 HMCs*), and it is possible that it was missing turret basket before being transferred to Yugoslavia.

Ah, that could be it. Who knows what happened before or in the dump?
 

Is that the M3A1 that used to be at the Patton Museum?
They had one with a Guiberson diesel and one that was gas.
I don't think I realized that all the M3A1 had a basket.  None of the straight M3 did, right?

Correct. The top picture was at the Patton Museum, and the bottom one is of the M3A1 of the Virginia Museum of Military Vehicles/Americans in Wartime Museum. The British had noted that a so-called "integrated fighting compartment" was desirable, and when power traverse was being looked at for the M3 the turret basket was deemed essential.
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#114 shep854

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Posted Yesterday, 12:31 PM

Quack, quack:
https://youtu.be/0t8Fk7Fszwc

Drat. Beat me to it. :P
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#115 Panzermann

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Posted Today, 11:44 AM

Quack, quack:
https://youtu.be/0t8Fk7Fszwc

Drat. Beat me to it. :P



Nick flips between calling sailors "them" and then again calling out armymen as not knowing naval terms (propeller <-> screw, port- starboardside etc. e.g.).


although direct DUKW replacements failed there is the various LARC models.
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#116 shep854

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Posted Today, 01:42 PM

I suppose the the LCAC could be called a descendant if sorts.
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