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Elections, Elections, Elections


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#1101 DB

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 1839 PM

BBC has a summary page https://www.bbc.co.u...-elections-2019


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#1102 Markus Becker

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Posted 27 May 2019 - 0438 AM

What a massacre!

https://www.bbc.co.u...-elections-2019
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#1103 DB

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Posted 27 May 2019 - 0634 AM

Indeed.

 

And what does this mean?

 

The Leavers will claim that it reinforces the referendum result, because they had more votes than anyone else.

 

The Remainers will discount it again because the turnout was less than 37% "so you don't have a majority".

 

The Liberal Democrats will delude themselves into thinking that they're a credible political party again, and not just the acceptable haven for a protest vote.

 

The Tories already believe that having Theresa May quit means this is just a blip.

 

Labour will continue with the cult of personality, because their collective delusion hasn't been tested by giving the man any real power (except to assist in preventing the May Deal).

 

European elections have always had poor turnouts. This one was nearly 2% higher than the last one. After several years of political focus on who does what in the EU, I still see that people have had no idea who or what they were voting for - I have even seen left wingers posting stuff like this:

 

Urgh, wat?

 


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#1104 sunday

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Posted 27 May 2019 - 0749 AM

Here in Spain, these last Euro elections were simultaneous with local elections, and several regional ones. Main result is having the power of the radical left pretty diminished.


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#1105 TonyE

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Posted 27 May 2019 - 1545 PM

sebastian-kurz-1132622.jpg


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#1106 Rick

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Posted 27 May 2019 - 1606 PM

So how did the U.S. version of conservatives(small national government, taxation reduction, emphasis on individual responsibility vs the government ruining society, etc.) due? 


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#1107 Ssnake

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Posted 27 May 2019 - 1759 PM

You mean, generally in Europe, or in a specific country?

There were more than 300 parties competing for seats in the European parliament, I really have no overview about the totality of the offerings of the European political marketplace.

 

I'll wager a bet, though. Since you're asking for a very specific combinationsmall national government, taxation reduction, emphasis on individual responsibility vs the government ruining society, etc., I think that notwithstanding some of these elements being present in some of the parties, this specific combination is rather unique to the US, or at least doesn't attract more than maybe 5% of all voters in Europe, so I guess the performance could be described as "pathetic".

That's not to say that I think that these ideals are pathetic. But the majority of people votes "middle of the road", and then you have all kinds of more or less unique flavors on the fringes - be they socialist, communist even, nationalist, populist, anti-immigration platform, pro-corruption platform (the social democrats of Romania). The majority of votes goes to big state/social spending type party programs, with now a strong streak of eco-dirigistic parties. Even many of the right-wingers propose an expansion of social welfare programs. But they can't agree on anything, and besides, the EU has next to no say in these matters anyway, so in that respect the elections were largely inconsequential.

 

Will be interesting to see what kind of a new European Commision will emerge from this, though.


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#1108 Rick

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Posted 28 May 2019 - 0440 AM

You mean, generally in Europe, or in a specific country?

There were more than 300 parties competing for seats in the European parliament, I really have no overview about the totality of the offerings of the European political marketplace.

 

I'll wager a bet, though. Since you're asking for a very specific combinationsmall national government, taxation reduction, emphasis on individual responsibility vs the government ruining society, etc., I think that notwithstanding some of these elements being present in some of the parties, this specific combination is rather unique to the US, or at least doesn't attract more than maybe 5% of all voters in Europe, so I guess the performance could be described as "pathetic".

That's not to say that I think that these ideals are pathetic. But the majority of people votes "middle of the road", and then you have all kinds of more or less unique flavors on the fringes - be they socialist, communist even, nationalist, populist, anti-immigration platform, pro-corruption platform (the social democrats of Romania). The majority of votes goes to big state/social spending type party programs, with now a strong streak of eco-dirigistic parties. Even many of the right-wingers propose an expansion of social welfare programs. But they can't agree on anything, and besides, the EU has next to no say in these matters anyway, so in that respect the elections were largely inconsequential.

 

Will be interesting to see what kind of a new European Commision will emerge from this, though.

Thank you Ssnake for a very good post. Didn't know there were that many parties. You are confirming my guess that political "titles/names/parties" have different meanings in the U.S. vs Europe. Sorry to hear about the socialist tendencies that are ingrained in the European mind. 


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#1109 Ssnake

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Posted 28 May 2019 - 0841 AM

We manage.


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#1110 Markus Becker

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Posted 28 May 2019 - 1016 AM

Some lefty YouTuber made waves by calling not to vote for the CDU, SPD, AfD(= Vote Green). The CDUs mini Merkel calls for


https://m.dw.com/en/...aign/a-48919475

What a hypocrite. As long as it was "don't vote AfD" they could not approve more. It serves them right to get a dose of their own medicine.

Edited by Markus Becker, 28 May 2019 - 1017 AM.

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#1111 Panzermann

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Posted 28 May 2019 - 1823 PM

Some lefty YouTuber made waves by calling not to vote for the CDU, SPD, AfD(= Vote Green). The CDUs mini Merkel calls for

 
Yup, greens suspiciously absent in that video. I watched it and he himself said that he does not know what to vote for. Well that looked more like a weak CYA and the subject was roasting the CDU.
 
Except the Greens have shown to not fucking care about the environment any more than the others when in power. cases in point: BaWü and NRW.
 
 

https://m.dw.com/en/...aign/a-48919475

What a hypocrite. As long as it was "don't vote AfD" they could not approve more. It serves them right to get a dose of their own medicine.

 
It is not bad when we™ do it. ;)
 
 
Bloomberg rumours that Merkel does not like AKK's performance. https://www.bloomber...k-not-up-to-job
 
 

(...)
AKK has proved prone to stumbles.

An off-color joke about transsexuals at a local festival put moderates on alert. Her latest mistake came in the aftermath of Sunday’s election.

When a YouTube video attacking the CDU became a viral sensation, AKK accused the 70 web activists who endorsed the clip of wielding undue influence and was forced onto the defensive following a wave of criticism.
She tweeted on Monday that it was “absurd to accuse me of wanting to regulate statements of opinion.”
If nothing else, the episode highlighted the CDU’s desperate attempts to reach younger voters with its own forays into the digital realm. As of Tuesday, the video by a blue-haired moderator known as Rezo has been viewed more than 12 million times since it hit the web May 18.


Kramp-Karrenbauer always seemed like a weak choice to me.

Edited by Panzermann, 28 May 2019 - 1832 PM.

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#1112 Ssnake

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Posted 29 May 2019 - 0209 AM

True emancipation requires that incompetent women can also make it to the top. The SPD is leading in this area (although arguably the Greens were first).

 

Mr President! We cannot have,  an incompetence gap!


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#1113 Panzermann

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Posted 29 May 2019 - 2304 PM

True emancipation requires that incompetent women can also make it to the top. The SPD is leading in this area (although arguably the Greens were first).

 

Mr President! We cannot have,  an incompetence gap!

 

 

Friend of mine a few days ago blabbered something about "women being universally the better human" or something like that. I pointed at Nahles, Merkel, AKK, vdL... The list of competence is long and it shut him up quickly. though I doubt it made him think. But he has nbo time for thinking as a middle school teacher and two little children at home.


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#1114 Martin M

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 0123 AM

" Kopflose Bürger, getrieben von der Grünen Minderheit "

 

 

BRD  ca. 1985  to date


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#1115 BansheeOne

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 0826 AM

Lots of wrangling over the post of the next EU Commission president. German Manfred Weber has the best claim since he ran as top candidate of the Christian Democratic EPP which again became strongest group, and can block any other. However, it lost considerably compared to five years ago, as did the Social Democrats, and the traditional "grand coalition" between both no longer has a majority to deal out the choice between them (though Dutchman Frans Timmermans of the S&D is also hopeful, and can point to his national party growing against the trend of evaporating European social democracy).

 

That's before we get to the problem of Viktor Orban's Hungarian Fidesz, its membership in the EPP currently suspended; Weber also recently saw to it that they were excluded from leadership posts of the block. Any possible partners for a majority to elect him commission president - Social Democrats, Liberals, Greens - have stated they won't if Fidesz is still part of the EPP. However, throwing them out would further reduce the block's lead in seats. Orban himself announced pre-election that he won't support Weber anymore over the row, but has so far been trying to keep his party in the EPP rather than leaving to caucus with the British Conservatives, Polish PiS etc. in the ECR, or even the new far-right EAPN, despite endorsing individual leaders of its member parties. He is fully aware who butters his and his cronies' bread with EU moneys, after all.

 

Meanwhile French president Emmanuel Macron, his national movement eventually having joined the liberal ALDE group and contributed heavily to the latter's gains in the elections, remains opposed to the principle of the commission president being chosen based upon the electoral success of the candidates' groups. Danish liberal Margrethe Vestager, who ran merely as one of a lead team rather than a top candidate, nonetheless declared herself a contender for the post after the election. However, Macron's point woman for her support, former French Minister for European Affairs Nathalie Loiseau, didn't help the cause when it was leaked from a background media talk that she had refered to Manfred Weber as "ectoplasma" (if I was Weber, I would wear a "Ghostbusters" button on the internal campaign trail henceforth :D ).

 

The thing is that Macron is not alone in rejecting the European Parliament's self-empowerment to select the commission president. Other heads of government, including Angela Merkel, are known to prefer if he was just agreed upon between them in the European Council, and his confirmation just rubberstamped by the parliament as it used to be until the latter first told them five years ago that only candidates who ran for the post in the elections need apply. Division in parliament carries the risk that the Council re-assumes the power to instate some grey bureaucrate who meets the lowest common denominator between their national interests.

 

You can argue whether the last parliament's choice Jean-Claude Juncker was an improvement over his predecessors, but IMO it would be a step back in democratic legitimacy and popular acceptance of the EU if things reverted to the status prior ante. These elections saw a record turnout and sometimes considerable divergence from national polls because, as it has been argued, they were the first to be seen as being really about Europe, rather than an extension of national political affairs where you basically voted for or against policy of your own government, if you even bothered.

 

Meanwhile, Israel snaps again.

 

Repeat elections in Israel may not be enough to overcome religious divisions

 
Any resulting coalition would be unstable. Here’s why.
 
By Michael Freedman
June 7 at 5:00 AM

 

For the first time in its 71-year history, Israel will hold a repeat election after Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was unable to form a coalition government. Though there were many mathematically possible combinations for a coalition, Netanyahu could not find a formula to bridge these alliances. Some worry about the future of democratic politics in Israel, as Bibi (a nickname for Netanyahu) pursues an immunity bill against corruption charges while his right-wing partners have successfully passed populist nationalist laws.

 

It’s unclear whether a repeat election can solve the underlying problems that prevented a viable coalition this time. Deep divides between the “left” and the “right” in Israel prevented any serious thought about Netanyahu forming a unity government with the large centrist Blue and White party. The big surprise was that polarization over religious issues ended up preventing the formation of the expected narrow right-wing government.

 

Religious Polarization

 

Netanyahu’s failure to build a right-wing coalition, despite his seemingly clear victory two months ago, largely came down to a split between secular and religious coalition partners over one contentious issue: military draft exemptions for ultra-Orthodox men.

 

Coalition negotiations blew up after Avigdor Liberman, the founder and leader of the secular nationalist Yisrael Beiteinu party, announced that he would not join a “Jewish Law” government — by which he meant the widely held perception that Netanyahu was offering religious political parties new religious legislation in exchange for their support, including a watering-down of the military bill.

 

This is not a new position for Liberman. His electoral base is overwhelmingly made up of Russian-speaking immigrants from the former Soviet Union who especially dislike perceived concessions to the religious public. Some say he was particularly incensed by rumors that the Rabbinate was making Israelis from the former Soviet Union to undergo Jewish DNA tests before being allowed to marry.

 

However, Liberman is also building on the wider perception that Israel is slowly being turned into a religious state. In Israel, the secular majority feels threatened by the growing influence of religious groups in political life and deepening religious legislation. As religious institutions and communities continue to migrate into more secular areas, religious issues are also at the forefront of many local political battles.

 

Protests erupted in Ashkelon and Ashdod, for instance, when convenience stores and other grocery stores were closed on the Sabbath. Other flash points include fights in Arad over religious posters and religious boycotts over “immodest” malls in Jerusalem. Surveys also show that the majority of Israelis are highly opposed to religious coercion and support religious reform, including civil marriage.

 

In 2015, Liberman initially refused to join the coalition with the religious parties, but Netanyahu managed to put together 61 seats without his party. This time, Liberman knew Netanyahu could not form a majority coalition without his support, as the same constellation of parties that formed the 2015 coalition held 60 seats, one seat short of a majority. Liberman took full advantage of his electoral leverage, blasting Netanyahu and becoming the unexpected champion of secular Israel.

 

[...]

 

https://www.washingt...m=.994b6e643daf


Edited by BansheeOne, 08 June 2019 - 0827 AM.

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#1116 Panzermann

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 1555 PM

in the resent EU elections Romania has shown to be very service oriented towards its many expats working in the rest of the EU:



 

Riot police used against angry Romanian would-be voters in The Hague
Europe May 27, 2019

Riot police broke up a large crowd of Romanian nationals who had tried to access the country’s embassy in The Hague on Sunday evening after hundreds were unable to vote in a referendum about corruption.
Romanians had queued for up to four hours outside the embassy to have their say, but the doors were locked at 9pm. Dozens of people then climbed over the fence and banged on the embassy door, at which point riot police were brought in with dogs.
Police later confirmed they had made one charge but said no-one was arrested. Video on one website shows police with batons marching towards a group of people who were chanting ‘we want to vote’, ordering them to ‘walk’. Some 30,000 Romanian nationals live in the Netherlands and they were able to vote at just three locations. In Diemen too there were serious problems, leading the city’s mayor to request the embassy send more staff and to describe the situation as a scandal

Police later confirmed they had made one charge but said no-one was arrested. Video on one website shows police with batons marching towards a group of people who were chanting ‘we want to vote’, ordering them to ‘walk’. Some 30,000 Romanian nationals live in the Netherlands and they were able to vote at just three locations. In Diemen too there were serious problems, leading the city’s mayor to request the embassy send more staff and to describe the situation as a scandal.
 
 
Romanians also faced long queues to vote in other European countries with long queues reported outside embassies in Ireland and Luxembourg. Despite the problems outside Romania, the anti-corruption measure gathered enough support and was declared valid.

 

https://www.dutchnew...s-in-the-hague/

 

Also in Germany and elswhere there were serious problems for romanian voters and long queues: e.g.: in Munich: https://alba24.ro/vi...ota-712194.html

 

https://nos.nl/artik...-ambassade.html

 

https://www.hessensc...enbach-100.html


Edited by Panzermann, 18 June 2019 - 1556 PM.

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#1117 BansheeOne

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Posted 30 June 2019 - 0631 AM

Lots of wrangling over the post of the next EU Commission president. German Manfred Weber has the best claim since he ran as top candidate of the Christian Democratic EPP which again became strongest group, and can block any other. However, it lost considerably compared to five years ago, as did the Social Democrats, and the traditional "grand coalition" between both no longer has a majority to deal out the choice between them (though Dutchman Frans Timmermans of the S&D is also hopeful, and can point to his national party growing against the trend of evaporating European social democracy).

 

[...]

 

Meanwhile French president Emmanuel Macron, his national movement eventually having joined the liberal ALDE group and contributed heavily to the latter's gains in the elections, remains opposed to the principle of the commission president being chosen based upon the electoral success of the candidates' groups. Danish liberal Margrethe Vestager, who ran merely as one of a lead team rather than a top candidate, nonetheless declared herself a contender for the post after the election. However, Macron's point woman for her support, former French Minister for European Affairs Nathalie Loiseau, didn't help the cause when it was leaked from a background media talk that she had refered to Manfred Weber as "ectoplasma" (if I was Weber, I would wear a "Ghostbusters" button on the internal campaign trail henceforth :D ).

 

The thing is that Macron is not alone in rejecting the European Parliament's self-empowerment to select the commission president. Other heads of government, including Angela Merkel, are known to prefer if he was just agreed upon between them in the European Council, and his confirmation just rubberstamped by the parliament as it used to be until the latter first told them five years ago that only candidates who ran for the post in the elections need apply. Division in parliament carries the risk that the Council re-assumes the power to instate some grey bureaucrate who meets the lowest common denominator between their national interests.

 

Well, there has been much backroom-dealing about the EU's five top posts - Council president, Commission president, High Representative on Foreign and Security Policy, speaker of parliament, and head of the European Central Bank. The EU Parliament has been unable to look beyond partisanship and agree on a candidate for the Commision presidency, despite the Christian Democrats as biggest groups making far-going political concessions in the quasi-coalition talks to get German Manfred Weber in. This returned the initiative to the Council of the member states' heads of government.

 

Angela Merkel, not originally a fan of the elected top candidate model, turned into a defender to hold onto Weber - or at least excert a sufficient price for surrendering him. Emmanuel Macron remained head of the opposition, noting that Weber has no executive experience at all and was really only elected in Germany rather than on the Europe-wide lists he has suggested; he is supposed to want Frenchman and Brexit chief negotiator Michel Barnier, though if it absolutely has to be an elected candidate, he would probably compromise on Margrethe Vestager from his liberal "Renew Europe" (ex-ALDE) group despite her not having run as an official top candidate.

 

Spanish minister president Pedro Sanchez also made a tactical turn from opponent to supporter of the top candidate model to push for Dutchman Frans Timmermans from his social democratic group. The European participants of the Tokyo G-20 summit did reportedly in fact agree on Timmermans, with Weber to become either vice president of the Commission or speaker of parliament - possibly for the full term of five years rather than the customary half-term. However, the four Eastern European Visegrad states promptly rejected Timmermans, who as current Commissioner for the Rule of Law is unpopular with them for being at the top of EU proceedings against Poland and Hungary.

 

They don't particularly like Vestager either, but would probably accept her over Timmermans. Then again Germany would likely hate to select Vestager due to Macron's obstructionism against Weber. In the end, nomination by the Council doesn't have to be unanimous - Jean-Claude Juncker was chosen against the Hungarian vote - though it would be unusual for its choice to go against an entire group of members. Then again, the V-4 aren't a monolithic block either; Viktor Orban eventually voted for current Council president Donald Tusk despite the Polish PiS fighting him tooth and nail.

 

Of course, the candidate nominated by the Council then still has to be confirmed by the Parliament. If the Christian Democrats give up Weber, they're certainly not going to make the same concessions for the planned program of the Commission - rather the opposite, which might not be a bad thing (the previous draft saw climate change and gender equality way up before other issues like joint security to get the Greens aboard, for example). The saga continues.


Edited by BansheeOne, 30 June 2019 - 0632 AM.

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#1118 Ssnake

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Posted 30 June 2019 - 1005 AM

It's a pity that Vestager is a bit tainted by Macron, she did a brilliant job as commissioner for competition.


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#1119 BansheeOne

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 1349 PM

Oh Gawd. The Council just nominated German defense minister Ursula von der Leyen as Commission president.

 

First, credit where it's due. She has fought hard to get the Bundeswehr more money and reform the broken procurement system - even if you allow that that's of course self-serving to a degree, and a parliamentary investigation is currently underway to determine whether her reforms merely resulted in replacing the good-old-boys cronyism between industry and defense officials with a smart-new-boys-cronyism between defense officials and civilian consultants. She is one of the few defense ministers ever to survive more than one term, though mostly because nobody else wanted the job; it's well-known her ambitions don't stop there.

 

However, she straight knows no loyalty, with either superiors or subordinates. As a sitting minister in her previous post, she once threatened to vote with the opposition for introduction of mandatory quotas of female business board members. In her current job, her first reaction to any real or imagined scandal in the armed forces has been to denounce soldiers for wrongdoing, or even the whole Bundeswehr for having an "attitude problem", then depicting herself as a tough investigator.

 

Her plus for the current selection is that she is a Christian Democrat, has executive experience unlike Manfred Weber - and is a woman, who of course are always fielded if you want to put pressure on people not to stand in the way of female emancipation. The negative is that she was not elected in the European elections, and is still a German, always viewed with suspicion for being the biggest and wealthiest in the EU.

 

The political packet also includes current Belgian prime minister Charles Michel becoming Council president, Spanish foreign minister Josep Borrell High Representative of Foreign and Security Policy, IMF head Christine Lagarde head of the European Central Bank, and Manfred Weber speaker of Parliament in the second half-term after a social democrat. Frans Timmermans is to remain vice president of the Commission. Overall, that's just the kind of inter-governmental backroom deal that was supposed to be a thing of the past with the introduction of the top candidate model in the previous elections. And it's Parliament's own fault for not looking beyond partisan interest. How they will treat this is going to be interesting.


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#1120 Panzermann

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 1433 PM

Looks like vdL is being promoted away like a certain former president who also is from Lower Saxony.  :huh:


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