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#21 Mike Steele

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 0858 AM

xxx


Edited by Mike Steele, 12 February 2016 - 0900 AM.

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#22 Panzermann

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 0859 AM

The Iranian pilots seem more capable over all.

The Saudi pilots are selected for other merits like family and loyalty.
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#23 crazyinsane105

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 0921 AM

Except their neighbors (minus Israel and Pakistan) are quite incompetent with their fancy equipment.

 
Are you sure that's also true wrt to the Air Force? Saudi pilots are individually training in the US, what they have is F-15 with AESA radar and AMRAAMs / Typhoon with Meteors and AWACS on top of that. It's similar with the rest of GCC.

My big sister is in the USAF. About a year ago, they had a Saudi captain take part in some training exercises alongside other troops. Long story short, he was an absolute joke and the unit that he was assigned too came in last place solely due to his incompetennce.

None of the USAF trainers my sister has encountered have much respect for the Saudi air force. I can't comment on the other GCC states, but considering that some need to hire foreigners to fight wars isn't very promising...
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#24 swerve

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 0921 AM

Got to find sufficiently ego-boosting jobs for all the surplus princelings, lest they plot revolution.


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#25 urbanoid

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 0929 AM

Um, thanks. I might have had too much hopes about their competence. ^_^


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#26 crazyinsane105

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 0937 AM

Um, thanks. I might have had too much hopes about their competence. ^_^


I was in the same boat until I heard the stories from my sister.
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#27 bojan

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 0954 AM

http://www.tank-net....=6#entry1225305

Nothing more needs to be said about Saudis.


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#28 glenn239

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 1218 PM

None of the USAF trainers my sister has encountered have much respect for the Saudi air force.

 

 

But AMRAAM don’t care who pushes the launch button.  Anyways, I’m surprised no one has developed software to allow something like an S-400 to control fighters in battle.  


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#29 JWB

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 1219 PM

http://www.tank-net....=6#entry1225305

Nothing more needs to be said about Saudis.

Gruesome but not surprising at all. The king of SA should hire as many Paki mercs as he can get.


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#30 JWB

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 1220 PM

http://www.tank-net....=6#entry1225305

Nothing more needs to be said about Saudis.

Gruesome but not surprising at all. The king of SA should hire as many Paki mercs as he can get.


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#31 crazyinsane105

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 1614 PM


None of the USAF trainers my sister has encountered have much respect for the Saudi air force.
 
 
But AMRAAM dont care who pushes the launch button.  Anyways, Im surprised no one has developed software to allow something like an S-400 to control fighters in battle.  


Air to air combat is significantly more complicated than launching BVRs at the enemy. In the last few conflicts that saw widespread use of BVRs (the Iran-Iraq war and 1982 Bekka valley), there was a tremendous amount of coordination between AWACs, ground controlled radar stations, etc. I have serious doubts that such coordination exists within the Saudi military.

The Iranians on the other hand displayed some pretty serious skill and managed to thrash the Iraqis time and again.
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#32 FlyingCanOpener

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 2018 PM

 

Low oil prices are the silver lining, if you could call it that. My question is how many Su-30's can the Iranians get their hands on. Iran's immediate neighbors have have already spent lavishly on their air forces.


Except their neighbors (minus Israel and Pakistan) are quite incompetent with their fancy equipment.

I'm surprised that the Iranians are opting for the Su30 and not the 35.

 

 

Su-30 is a two-seater (Allows them to start phasing out Tomcats) and if they get the Su-30MKK, it's got all of the Su-35 upgrades in it already.


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#33 RETAC21

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 1425 PM

 

None of the USAF trainers my sister has encountered have much respect for the Saudi air force.
 
 
But AMRAAM dont care who pushes the launch button.  Anyways, Im surprised no one has developed software to allow something like an S-400 to control fighters in battle.  


Air to air combat is significantly more complicated than launching BVRs at the enemy. In the last few conflicts that saw widespread use of BVRs (the Iran-Iraq war and 1982 Bekka valley), there was a tremendous amount of coordination between AWACs, ground controlled radar stations, etc. I have serious doubts that such coordination exists within the Saudi military.

The Iranians on the other hand displayed some pretty serious skill and managed to thrash the Iraqis time and again.

 

 

In 1980 or so, this skill would have been degraded by now. The most serious lack is that of AWACS.


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#34 JasonJ

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 0941 AM

There's a pretty big strategic situation revolving around Iran.

 

Russia on one hand, China and Pakistan on another, India on a third hand, and the US on the final hand. Japan is shaping up to play a part in India's hand.

 

Spoiler

http://timesofindia....ow/52423308.cms

 

Spoiler

http://www.japantime...n/#.V3Z3zPl97cs

 

Spoiler

http://www.pravdarep..._partnership-0/

 

Spoiler

http://www.pakistant...-chabahar-pact/

 

Spoiler

http://timesofindia....ow/52438034.cms


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#35 crazyinsane105

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 2057 PM

Eh...all this talk about Gwadar and Chabahar are just wish-wash right now. Gwadar was supposed to become operational a decade ago, but to date it can't even compete with Karachi in terms of how many commercial ships actually utilize the port. The recent 45 billion dollar promised investment from China might change this, but again, it's really up in the air. There have been many rumors of the Chinese using Gwadar as a naval base, but again, nearly a decade after inauguration, there hasn't been much Chinese naval activity in that area. 

 

Chabahar will very likely go down the same path. Assuming that port actually becomes operational, what incentive is there for ships to utilize Chabahar or Gwadar versus the massive ports in the Gulf countries? Naval bases sound awesome, except they don't generate nearly as much revenue as commercial ports do. It also won't make much financial sense for either Iran or Pakistan to build a port just so a foreign navy can utilize it. 


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#36 Simon Tan

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 2309 PM

Chahbahar is intended as a direct sailing. Dubai was necessary because of direct sailing issues previously.
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#37 JasonJ

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 2330 PM

Eh...all this talk about Gwadar and Chabahar are just wish-wash right now. Gwadar was supposed to become operational a decade ago, but to date it can't even compete with Karachi in terms of how many commercial ships actually utilize the port. The recent 45 billion dollar promised investment from China might change this, but again, it's really up in the air. There have been many rumors of the Chinese using Gwadar as a naval base, but again, nearly a decade after inauguration, there hasn't been much Chinese naval activity in that area. 
 
Chabahar will very likely go down the same path. Assuming that port actually becomes operational, what incentive is there for ships to utilize Chabahar or Gwadar versus the massive ports in the Gulf countries? Naval bases sound awesome, except they don't generate nearly as much revenue as commercial ports do. It also won't make much financial sense for either Iran or Pakistan to build a port just so a foreign navy can utilize it.


Lots of people thought China's 9 dash line claim was silly and a lot of hype as well, but then they started the man-made island construction. People thought economic ties would keep tensions raising further, but that has not been the case. PLA Navy is very young in blue water Navy standards. I don't know about the circumstances before China's involvement but China's involvement changes the potential factor by a lot. Planners from all around will have to take it into account now.
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#38 crazyinsane105

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 1622 PM

 

Eh...all this talk about Gwadar and Chabahar are just wish-wash right now. Gwadar was supposed to become operational a decade ago, but to date it can't even compete with Karachi in terms of how many commercial ships actually utilize the port. The recent 45 billion dollar promised investment from China might change this, but again, it's really up in the air. There have been many rumors of the Chinese using Gwadar as a naval base, but again, nearly a decade after inauguration, there hasn't been much Chinese naval activity in that area. 
 
Chabahar will very likely go down the same path. Assuming that port actually becomes operational, what incentive is there for ships to utilize Chabahar or Gwadar versus the massive ports in the Gulf countries? Naval bases sound awesome, except they don't generate nearly as much revenue as commercial ports do. It also won't make much financial sense for either Iran or Pakistan to build a port just so a foreign navy can utilize it.


Lots of people thought China's 9 dash line claim was silly and a lot of hype as well, but then they started the man-made island construction. People thought economic ties would keep tensions raising further, but that has not been the case. PLA Navy is very young in blue water Navy standards. I don't know about the circumstances before China's involvement but China's involvement changes the potential factor by a lot. Planners from all around will have to take it into account now.

 

 

Except that took place in China. The Chinese can do just about anything in their own country....in Pakistan, not so much. Also, most of the 45 billion dollar is pledged. It is to be seen whether even half of that is delivered to Pakistan, and judging by how often international donors (including China) pledge developmental funds to Pakistan yet rarely pay the full amount, I'm not very optimistic...


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#39 mattblack

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 1738 PM

 

None of the USAF trainers my sister has encountered have much respect for the Saudi air force.
 
 
But AMRAAM dont care who pushes the launch button.  Anyways, Im surprised no one has developed software to allow something like an S-400 to control fighters in battle.  


Air to air combat is significantly more complicated than launching BVRs at the enemy. In the last few conflicts that saw widespread use of BVRs (the Iran-Iraq war and 1982 Bekka valley), there was a tremendous amount of coordination between AWACs, ground controlled radar stations, etc. I have serious doubts that such coordination exists within the Saudi military.

The Iranians on the other hand displayed some pretty serious skill and managed to thrash the Iraqis time and again.

 

 

 

Those Iranian pilots were all US trained and are now 70 years old.


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#40 Simon Tan

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 1948 PM

I met a F4 pilot who now runs a rug store in the Isfahan bazaar. The IRIAF is quite effective in digesting and transmitting lessons learned. They do suffer from not actually going hot for a while.
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