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#161 Interlinked

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 0705 AM

What are those little vertical rib thingies and what is their purpose?


They break up the projectile or at least damage it before it hits the plate, so that its penetration performance is sharply reduced. In effect, it is essentially the same thing as crosswise spaced armour, which is spaced armour with two perpendicular plates instead of parallel plates.
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#162 Rick

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 0930 AM

 

What are those little vertical rib thingies and what is their purpose?

They break up the projectile or at least damage it before it hits the plate, so that its penetration performance is sharply reduced. In effect, it is essentially the same thing as crosswise spaced armour, which is spaced armour with two perpendicular plates instead of parallel plates.

 

Thank you. Out of curiosity, is their a caliber of round where these "ribs" are ineffective?


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#163 Interlinked

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 1017 AM

Thank you. Out of curiosity, is their a caliber of round where these "ribs" are ineffective?


I don't have a hard answer because I've never seen a study dedicated to answering this question. It works for 51mm tungsten alloy penetrators, as found during Swedish tests with the Strv 103. It also works for 90mm AP rounds, according to tests on experimental armour solutions for the M48 in the U.S. It seems that as long as the size and thickness of the ribs are scaled appropriately, there is no reason why this type of armour couldn't work on a projectile of any caliber.
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#164 Ariete!

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 0705 AM

I'm very much on board with what 'Zuk' and others have stated.  I think that what you want is an 'IFV' that can carry 8 dismounts and has a turreted armament in the 25-30 mm range.

There are several models now that can give you that, I think/

Given the typical forestation / urbanisation levels of many theatres, I think the Ideal Armour (combined arms) unit is two Coys of IFVs  and two Coys of MBTs.

As others have stated, that's armoured forces; if you;'re getting in a lot of 'close' terrain w=you will need more leg infantry, of course.

 

On the 'wheeled IFVs', there is clearly a trend there. (France, Italy, the US with the 30mm Strykers).
 

I think a decent sized army should be able to deploy both tracked (MB+tracked IFV) and somewhat wider-ranging but less tactically mobile) wheeled units with wheeled IFVs / MGS.


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#165 bojan

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 1157 AM

Wheeled IFVs are for colonial warfare. If you are relatively small defensively minded country they are cargo cult vanity item. Especially mixing those with tanks is an utter stupidity since they do not have same tactical mobility and never will.

If you want to police Bumfuckistans - yeah they are "good", in a sense that "we are contributing, but we are also saving $" so even as such they are half assed measure.

 

Wheeled APCs are a thing because all tracked force is more expensive to run. That was a primary reason for Soviets to use them.


Edited by bojan, 10 May 2020 - 1200 PM.

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#166 RETAC21

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 1342 PM

Wheeled IFVs are for colonial warfare. If you are relatively small defensively minded country they are cargo cult vanity item. Especially mixing those with tanks is an utter stupidity since they do not have same tactical mobility and never will.

If you want to police Bumfuckistans - yeah they are "good", in a sense that "we are contributing, but we are also saving $" so even as such they are half assed measure.

 

Wheeled APCs are a thing because all tracked force is more expensive to run. That was a primary reason for Soviets to use them.

 

The second reason is no small matter but also you may want operational mobility to fight a medium equipped enemy (some tanks, but no heavy units to speak of), enabling quick concentration and enabling ferrying on commercial shipping. Which why we developped BMR.


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#167 bojan

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 1552 PM

I think that wheeled APCs have their role in the grand scheme of things for a smaller countries, unlike wheeled IFVs. And a role is exactly one you noted, trucking infantry in the relative safety in order to fight lower tier opponents.


Edited by bojan, 10 May 2020 - 1553 PM.

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#168 TTK Ciar

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 1636 PM

 

...

Ogorkiewicz's figures are probably not referring to the same standard grades and may have been derived from tests that were carried out in some other set of conditions, which are unknown. The HHA he refers to may be overhardened and too brittle. Who knows.

 

 

FWIW, Ogorkiewicz's measurements aren't that far off from what you would expect from armor of the given hardness.  The ratio of square roots of hardness rule is an oversimplification (it fails to take brittleness into account, for instance) but offers good predictions more frequently than not.

sqrt(550)/sqrt(380) = 1.20, or 20% better protection, which isn't that far off from the 16% cited.  Like you said, there could be any of a number of context-dependent factors which account for the discrepancy.


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#169 Simon Tan

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 2211 PM

Killshot on the LAV proposal for Tankovia.


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#170 Colin

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Posted 12 May 2020 - 1450 PM

Wheeled IFVs are for colonial warfare. If you are relatively small defensively minded country they are cargo cult vanity item. Especially mixing those with tanks is an utter stupidity since they do not have same tactical mobility and never will.

If you want to police Bumfuckistans - yeah they are "good", in a sense that "we are contributing, but we are also saving $" so even as such they are half assed measure.

 

Wheeled APCs are a thing because all tracked force is more expensive to run. That was a primary reason for Soviets to use them.

Canada is stupid because we think LAV's should work with tanks. Mainly because we don't have the money, people, spare parts or systems to run LAV's and tracked IFV's (not to mention the shitshow our procurement process is)

 

As much as I favour tracks for the heavier APC/IFV's. If I am fighting in Mali, then I want wheeled, not to heavy and something with a big gun, so basically French vehicles.


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#171 bojan

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Posted 12 May 2020 - 1500 PM

Well, fighting in Mali is a definition of the colonial warfare :)


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#172 Simon Tan

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Posted 12 May 2020 - 2022 PM

Tankovia has no colonial ambitions.


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#173 Nobu

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Posted 12 May 2020 - 2038 PM

The Malinese will be relieved to hear that.


Edited by Nobu, 12 May 2020 - 2040 PM.

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#174 Interlinked

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Posted 25 May 2020 - 1634 PM

Does anyone know the amount of space (volume) allocated to each dismount in a CV90? I seem to recall there was a thread where this was mentioned, but I can't find it.


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#175 Arminius

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Posted 26 May 2020 - 1512 PM

IMO there´s a place for both:

 

tracked and wheeled.

 

IMO the mobilities are vastly different, more than "dry" technical data will tell, but that can be seen as an advantage:

 

imagine you have to move a tracked unit for over 500 km. Through towns and winding roads.

 

Will take time, breakdowns, ruined roads, traffic jams.

 

A wheeled unit? Will drive that in one day, without further fuss.

 

Of course, if you have to fight in snow, swamp, heavy rain, mountainous terrain, tracked is supreme. But the logistic "tail" is gigantic. Therefore also costs.

 

For low intensity conflicts … wheeled has advantages. And yes, I think wheeled should include the whole range: command, recovery, mortar, AA, FS vehicles.

 

Hermann

 


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