Jump to content


Photo

Tankovian Meta Thread

alt-hist c&rsenal pre-WW1

  • Please log in to reply
591 replies to this topic

#581 Markus Becker

Markus Becker

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,550 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Westphalia, Germany

Posted 03 June 2019 - 0821 AM

We knew that the Blish principle didn’t exist right away and looked at the rifle to find out how it manged to function anyway and discovered the bolt handle sort-of locked into the receiver like a black powder bolt action rifle. We put the camming surfaces into an extension of the barrel.

 

The Pedersen is part of military program and we aren’t going anywhere near that. The military demands perfection right away in any way. A commercial rifle isn’t subject to such extreme requirements, particularly not a semi automatic one. It just needs to be better than the competition, which consist of the Winchester 07 with it’s very heavy bolt and the Remington Model 8 with it’s complicated mechanics. Savage has looked at our test ‘device’ and thinks the idea of a rotating bolt delayed blowback action can be made into a working firearm.

 

Speaking of, doesn’t Arsenal have a 9mm Luger pistol with a large capacity magazine? That and our modernized Model 1907 pocket pistol would make a nice pair on the US market.


Edited by Markus Becker, 03 June 2019 - 0821 AM.

  • 0

#582 Markus Becker

Markus Becker

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,550 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Westphalia, Germany

Posted 06 June 2019 - 1214 PM

Any suggestions for names for the M1914 rifle and the M1912/20/22(?) pistol? The 1921 series is marketed as the Minuteman Carbines, the modernized 1907 as the Liberator pistol.
  • 0

#583 Markus Becker

Markus Becker

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,550 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Westphalia, Germany

Posted 07 June 2019 - 1411 PM


And now for a bit of machine carbine history from the distant future:


https://youtu.be/jNrAsnfI5-k

M1922 prototype built on M1913 reciever.
  • 0

#584 Simon Tan

Simon Tan

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,259 posts
  • Interests:tanks. More tanks. Guns. BIG GUNs!

Posted 08 June 2019 - 0454 AM

The Model 1925 pistol is produced primarily for commercial sales to China. They are mostly select fire and can all mount a shoulder stock. It has had some success but users have complained about the large grip needed to accomodate the double stack magazine. Thinner wooden grip panels are not adequately robust so a suitable material is being sought.

I think the single stack Hahn might be a better fit for catalogue sales on price. The double stack magazines are expensive and we eliminate the select fire components.

Why dont we call the straight pull the Hunter/Jaeger since it is targeted at the hunting market? What do Americans think when they see Tankovia?
  • 0

#585 bojan

bojan

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 11,353 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgrade, Serbia
  • Interests:Obscure tanks and guns.
    Obscure facts about well known tanks and guns.
    Obscure historical facts.

Posted 08 June 2019 - 0617 AM

Steyr 1912 grips can be pretty thin due the way they are mounted on the frame. They could be made about 50% thinner w/o problems. Or make they from aluminium or alloy

5:00:


Edited by bojan, 08 June 2019 - 0621 AM.

  • 0

#586 Markus Becker

Markus Becker

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,550 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Westphalia, Germany

Posted 08 June 2019 - 0715 AM

I don’t expect the large grips of the M1925 pistol to be a problem. Americans have larger hands than the Chinese. Deeper pockets too, so the price of the double stack magazine is going to be much less of an issue. The flimsy grip panels are and must be fixed before we offer the gun. We have just recovered from the reputation of making “cheap” guns. Offering a new gun that has parts breaking is the last thing we need. The select fire trigger is another one. That’s only attracts the sort of customers I’d rather not sell any gun at all.

 

So, single stack Hahn’s right away, double stacks at a later date.

 

Names? Nothing German. The anti German sentiment is not as strong as it used to be but let’s not give ammunition to Auto Ordnance’s negative PR campaign.  A Hahn is a rooster in English but is that a good name for a handgun? Arsenal Rooster? Probably not. The double stack has a high capacity magazine. Arsenal High Capacity or High Power?

 

Something hunting themed for the rifle fits well. We need to dig into American history for a suitable catchy name.


Edited by Markus Becker, 08 June 2019 - 0716 AM.

  • 0

#587 Panzermann

Panzermann

    REFORGER '79

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,813 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Teutonistan

Posted 08 June 2019 - 1430 PM

I don’t expect the large grips of the M1925 pistol to be a problem. Americans have larger hands than the Chinese. Deeper pockets too, so the price of the double stack magazine is going to be much less of an issue. The flimsy grip panels are and must be fixed before we offer the gun. We have just recovered from the reputation of making “cheap” guns. Offering a new gun that has parts breaking is the last thing we need. The select fire trigger is another one. That’s only attracts the sort of customers I’d rather not sell any gun at all.

 

So, single stack Hahn’s right away, double stacks at a later date.

 

Names? Nothing German. The anti German sentiment is not as strong as it used to be but let’s not give ammunition to Auto Ordnance’s negative PR campaign.  A Hahn is a rooster in English but is that a good name for a handgun? Arsenal Rooster? Probably not. The double stack has a high capacity magazine. Arsenal High Capacity or High Power?

 

Something hunting themed for the rifle fits well. We need to dig into American history for a suitable catchy name.

 

Uhm the Steyr M1912 is called Steyr-Hahn, because it has a hammer (Hahn in German). so "arsenal hammer" could be a name. Or we derive it from the ammunition. Arsenal 919, Arsenal 900


  • 0

#588 Markus Becker

Markus Becker

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,550 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Westphalia, Germany

Posted 08 June 2019 - 1445 PM

"Hammer" ... That sounds good, really good.
  • 0

#589 Simon Tan

Simon Tan

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,259 posts
  • Interests:tanks. More tanks. Guns. BIG GUNs!

Posted 09 June 2019 - 1902 PM

Not in the 1920s and 30s. We can't do the steyr hahn panels because we are not using an internal magazine where the frame is also the magazine body.

 

Feed geometry of a M1920/22 is different from the Steyr M1912 simply because we do not have to be able to thumb in the stripper of ammo. The magazine is probably going to be rather similar to the Colt 1911 but with 8 round capacity. For the US market we have modified the M1922 to have a US style push-button magazine release in lieu of the heel catch of our own guns. The slide is also new production rather than excess M1912 slides and are now have a dovetail for a rear sight as well as a modified gripping serrations. The 'ears' of the Hahn are retained as they allow for easy manipulation compared to a 'slick' slide like Colt 1911.

 

A pair of M1913 machine carbines have been modified to accept the double stack Hahn magazines. This was done to allow export customers to share magazines between machine carbine and pistol.


Edited by Simon Tan, 09 June 2019 - 2243 PM.

  • 0

#590 Simon Tan

Simon Tan

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,259 posts
  • Interests:tanks. More tanks. Guns. BIG GUNs!

Posted 12 June 2019 - 2358 PM

I assume our gun laws are quite liberal given that we have rifles at home for reservists.
  • 0

#591 Markus Becker

Markus Becker

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,550 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Westphalia, Germany

Posted 13 June 2019 - 0432 AM

See this proposal:

 

http://www.tank-net....26#entry1423362

 

 

With the addition that a license is also required to carry a handgun.


  • 0

#592 Markus Becker

Markus Becker

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,550 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Westphalia, Germany

Posted 14 June 2019 - 1259 PM

Some more firearms news:

 

The machine carbine family has a new member. It’s a M1922 in caliber .22 lr. The carbine has a tubular receiver made from a piece of pipe. It is also smaller and no longer allows the conversion from 9mm but that caliber is still selling poorly. The increased sales on the US market are overwhelmingly M1922’s in caliber .22 because that is both cheap and can be used for hunting. Not sure how we call the gun. So joker suggested ‘Miniman’.

 

The Auto Ordnance Corporation looks like it is about to go under. Rumors in the industry indicate they are going to file for bankruptcy within the next quarter unless a miracle happens.


  • 0




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users