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Uk Surges Ahead With Challenger 2 Upgrade


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#961 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 24 July 2019 - 0826 AM

Nice video of C2 on the ranges with the Queens Royal Hussars.

https://twitter.com/...4924936193?s=20


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 24 July 2019 - 0826 AM.

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#962 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 24 July 2019 - 0833 AM

RTR Challenger 2 on the Castlemartin ranges.

https://twitter.com/...266390486822913


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#963 Mighty_Zuk

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 0404 AM


Or would you really rather see at least 3 entirely different simultaneously developed pieces of hardware fulfilling the exact same roles in every service?

 
Like cars, trucks, commercial airplanes?

Consummerism does not apply to armies. Consider an army as a single entity.

An individual person can look at the whole car market and decide which vehicle is best suited for him from a consideration of a wide array of factors such as capacity, fuel economy, range, comfort, aesthetics, suitability to terrain, etc etc.
But when he buys a car, he keeps that car until he decides he needs an upgrade, and usually will hold only one car unless that person has a family with complex transportation needs.

Same with an army. You don't go around buying every single tank in existence. You choose one most suitable based on your considerations.

You just don't see many people holding 3 different cars just for themselves.

And companies that use trucks or commercial airplanes try just as much to unify their fleets when looking for vehicles to match certain types of missions. Especially those who have their own maintenance centers and crews.
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#964 Mighty_Zuk

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 0421 AM


To replace a tank every 40 years and maintain a minimum production capacity of 30 per year (considered a bare minimum in the industry), one would have to maintain up to 1200 tanks in service (including reserves).
It's possible to go lower to 900 vehicles if a tank is to remain in service for 30 years.

Go lower and you're retiring them prematurely. Go higher and you need to ramp up production.

Either way, it's not worth keeping a tank-making industry unless you're going above a ~900 tank fleet.

 
Hello Mighty_Zuk,
 
There are probably other factors that exists which could effect the standard that you state. Perhaps commonality of parts with other AFVs or kind of production scheme could be factors. Consider the production rate of the Type 10 tank.
 
2010...13
2011...13
2012...13
2013...14
2014...13
2015...10
2016...6
2017...6
2018...5
2019...6
 
Production of Type 10 tanks will continue to at least FY2023. In the current midterm defense plan (2019-2023), 30 Type 10 tanks are planned to be procured. So that would mean 6 more tanks for 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2023 each.
 
There are 341 Type 90s in service. 873 Type 74s were produced but they have been retiring at a fairly high rate as units exchange the Type 74s and adopt to new defense guidelines and equipment for those guidelines such as the Type 16 Maneuver Combat Vehicle (MCV) or AAV7s. In 2016, about 400 Type 74s were in service from what I can find. So by now, I wouldn't be surprised if there were currently less than 200 Type 74s in service. So if we take about 100 Type 10s, 341 Type 90s, and 200 Type 74s, it comes up to 641 tanks. If we add in the Type 16 MCV, 109 have been produced so far. Adding them on still results in an amount fairly below the 900 level of about 750. The current midterm defense plan calls for the production of 134 Type 16 MCVs (22 of which made in 2019, so still another 112 more to go). However, as these come in, the remaining Type 74s will probably be gone.

A mixture of various types of AFVs is also possible to circumvent the issue of having to lay off people, but I'm not sure how it works with vehicles so different from one another.
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#965 Nobu

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 0918 AM

You just don't see many people holding 3 different cars just for themselves.

 

Not necessarily disagreeing with your point, but ownership of at least 3 different cars is not uncommon in California: daily driver, weekend driver, car restoration project


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#966 EvanDP

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 1052 AM

You just don't see many people holding 3 different cars just for themselves.
 
Not necessarily disagreeing with your point, but ownership of at least 3 different cars is not uncommon in California: daily driver, weekend driver, car restoration project


Raises hand. 😉
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#967 Chris Werb

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 1405 PM

 

To replace a tank every 40 years and maintain a minimum production capacity of 30 per year (considered a bare minimum in the industry), one would have to maintain up to 1200 tanks in service (including reserves).
It's possible to go lower to 900 vehicles if a tank is to remain in service for 30 years.

Go lower and you're retiring them prematurely. Go higher and you need to ramp up production.

Either way, it's not worth keeping a tank-making industry unless you're going above a ~900 tank fleet.

 

Hello Mighty_Zuk,

 

There are probably other factors that exists which could effect the standard that you state. Perhaps commonality of parts with other AFVs or kind of production scheme could be factors. Consider the production rate of the Type 10 tank.

 

2010...13

2011...13

2012...13

2013...14

2014...13

2015...10

2016...6

2017...6

2018...5

2019...6

 

Production of Type 10 tanks will continue to at least FY2023. In the current midterm defense plan (2019-2023), 30 Type 10 tanks are planned to be procured. So that would mean 6 more tanks for 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2023 each.

 

There are 341 Type 90s in service. 873 Type 74s were produced but they have been retiring at a fairly high rate as units exchange the Type 74s and adopt to new defense guidelines and equipment for those guidelines such as the Type 16 Maneuver Combat Vehicle (MCV) or AAV7s. In 2016, about 400 Type 74s were in service from what I can find. So by now, I wouldn't be surprised if there were currently less than 200 Type 74s in service. So if we take about 100 Type 10s, 341 Type 90s, and 200 Type 74s, it comes up to 641 tanks. If we add in the Type 16 MCV, 109 have been produced so far. Adding them on still results in an amount fairly below the 900 level of about 750. The current midterm defense plan calls for the production of 134 Type 16 MCVs (22 of which made in 2019, so still another 112 more to go). However, as these come in, the remaining Type 74s will probably be gone.

 

 

Can we please have a Type 74 for Bovington? :)


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#968 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 26 July 2019 - 0637 AM

No, Mothra ate them all.


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#969 JasonJ

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Posted 26 July 2019 - 1036 AM

Bovington would make a good home for one :)
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#970 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 1317 PM

Good article on the drive about the new items being trialled on streetfighter 2, including the Israeli Eurovision and a Brimstone launcher mock up.

https://www.thedrive...the-urban-fight
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#971 DB

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 1724 PM

Israeli Eurovision :D

 

You mean Dana International?


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#972 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 29 January 2020 - 0300 AM

The perils of typing on a Kindle, the spellchecking is abominable.


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#973 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 29 January 2020 - 0457 AM

This is what its got. Ironvision, Eurovision, go figure....

 

I dont know why, it reminds me one of those future tech adverts they had on Robocop. :D


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#974 lucklucky

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Posted 29 January 2020 - 1406 PM

I found strange it does not have APS.


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#975 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 29 January 2020 - 1450 PM

That's a different project. They probably don't want to interfere with that procurement. This seems to have been home grown with urban combat in mind by the Royal Tank Regiment.
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#976 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 0241 AM

Few more videos ive just notice on youtube.

 

 


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#977 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 0242 AM

This is Guy Martin, some of you will remember him as a Motorcycle racer (a pretty damn good one) who took part in the TT for many years. He did a programme about 2 years ago on building a replica of a WW1 tank, and this is the segment where he was giving a run in a Challenger 2 on Salisbury Plain.


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#978 DB

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 2141 PM

Why not bin the whole thing and get 200 K2 piggy-backed off the Polish order?
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#979 JW Collins

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 0713 AM

Why not bin the whole thing and get 200 K2 piggy-backed off the Polish order?

Even with the lower labor costs in Poland for that sort of money you probably could get all of the upgrades that are realistic for the Challenger 2 including a 120mm L55 smoothbore cannon.
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#980 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 0737 AM

And the armour package is better.


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