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#41 Ivanhoe

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 1054 AM

Needs more contingency planning obviously than keeping a pile of coal on hand.


Coal? Is that a bigoted "shrimp on the barbie" slam?

I would be interested how and why the net failed in south australia. I would not be surprised that they built the net on the cheap with strings and bubble gum.


Grid power seems to be a tricky thing, what with dynamic load shifting and all that;

https://en.wikipedia...thwest_blackout

Note that of the 6 FERC citations, 2 were issued to for-profit power generators but 4 were issued to regulatory and coordinating bodies.

Even with expensive string, if nodes aren't coordinated fully, and the grid design tested against a broad spectrum of failures, stuff can happen.

Of course, much of this nonsense happens because America and then the world chose to go with that Yurropean AC rather than good ol' reliable American DC.
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#42 Colin

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 2038 PM

AC as i recall travels further than DC with less line loss, but submarine cables are DC. 


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#43 DB

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Posted 01 October 2016 - 0852 AM

Not really

 

Infrastructure primarily was set up using AC because it's relatively easy to transform voltages, and high voltages mean lower currents and lower currents mean lower losses.

 

I think that if infrastructure was being created now, it would be more likely to be DC, because AC s actually more lossy for various reasons that I don't fully understand - capacitance in the cables, inductive coupling and such spring to mind.


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#44 sunday

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Posted 01 October 2016 - 0938 AM

Not really

 

Infrastructure primarily was set up using AC because it's relatively easy to transform voltages, and high voltages mean lower currents and lower currents mean lower losses.

 

I think that if infrastructure was being created now, it would be more likely to be DC, because AC s actually more lossy for various reasons that I don't fully understand - capacitance in the cables, inductive coupling and such spring to mind.

 

Still transformers are simpler to operate, and more robust than AC/DC converters, but for long distances and several other applications like submarine power transmission cables, or coupling between grid islands, DC is the way to go.

Some reasons on these links:

 

http://www.electrica...-ac-and-dc.html

http://electrical-en...ac-transmission


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#45 Adam_S

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 2201 PM

It seems that the local golf course has been taking water hazards to a whole new level.

 

http://www.abc.net.a...lf-club/8161282


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#46 DougRichards

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 2345 PM

As has the wildlife sitting on cars

 

http://www.abc.net.a...fending/8162116

15697234_10155081465414218_5294680564558


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#47 mnm

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 0213 AM

Not really
 
Infrastructure primarily was set up using AC because it's relatively easy to transform voltages, and high voltages mean lower currents and lower currents mean lower losses.
 
I think that if infrastructure was being created now, it would be more likely to be DC, because AC s actually more lossy for various reasons that I don't fully understand - capacitance in the cables, inductive coupling and such spring to mind.

 
Still transformers are simpler to operate, and more robust than AC/DC converters, but for long distances and several other applications like submarine power transmission cables, or coupling between grid islands, DC is the way to go.
Some reasons on these links:
 
http://www.electrica...-ac-and-dc.html
http://electrical-en...ac-transmission

Maerklin* trains are AC, cheapo are DC, so you can kiss my Eisenbahn.



*Sorry, no umlaut in this keyboard.
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#48 Panzermann

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 0943 AM

Not really
 
Infrastructure primarily was set up using AC because it's relatively easy to transform voltages, and high voltages mean lower currents and lower currents mean lower losses.
 
I think that if infrastructure was being created now, it would be more likely to be DC, because AC s actually more lossy for various reasons that I don't fully understand - capacitance in the cables, inductive coupling and such spring to mind.

 
Still transformers are simpler to operate, and more robust than AC/DC converters, but for long distances and several other applications like submarine power transmission cables, or coupling between grid islands, DC is the way to go.
Some reasons on these links:
 
http://www.electrica...-ac-and-dc.html
http://electrical-en...ac-transmission
Maerklin* trains are AC, cheapo are DC, so you can kiss my Eisenbahn.



*Sorry, no umlaut in this keyboard.

AC can better cope with differing and changing length of cable. Just think of all the devices connected and disconnected all the time from the electric power grid. When you have a known distance and known capacity requirements DC is in advantage. e.g. connecting an island to mainland power.


pahh, Märklin. I swear by Trix! ;)
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#49 Ivanhoe

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 1119 AM

Train buffs arguing about AC versus DC (not to mention an AC/DC riff in a thread about Australia; ironic, eh mates?);

 


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#50 Coldsteel

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 0338 AM

Tasmania had similar problems recently in a way. They decided to go with hyro power with an interconnector across the Bass straight to Victoria for backup. The interconnector failed and the dams nearly ran out of water because of a prolonged drought.

 

It's easy for a small state or country to say they are going to go 100% renewable when they've got a bit chunky interconnector to somewhere that has lots of spare base load capacity but it's decidedly more dodgy when you have to rely on renewables 100% of the time.

 

That's not completely correct. Tasmania was pretty much solely hydro powered for quite a while, there would have been more dam capacity but the state government got taken to court by the federal government to put a stop to dam construction. There was a backup oil fired power station that was eventually converted to gas, but it was mothballed for most of the time and for emergencies only. Basslink was seen as a way to sell power to the mainland at peak times and make a profit, and could also be used to cheaply import a percentage of base load. With that in place there wasn't seen to be a need to maintain a gas fired plant that would require a couple of weeks notice and considerable expense to bring it to a ready to generate power condition, and so it was sold off. There was a long drought and then Basslink failed, and that's a problem, but nothing like what SA got, the lights stayed on and some of Hydro's industrial customers were asked to throttle back their usage.


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#51 DougRichards

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 0354 AM

AC/DC was also Australian slang for bisexual for a while there......


Edited by DougRichards, 06 January 2017 - 0404 AM.

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#52 DougRichards

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 0402 AM

Meanwhile

 

An advertising campaign has caused a bit of strife:

 

Firstly I will explain (in place of a long time but recently missing Tanknet member) that the Northern Territory (ie Ayres Rock to Darwin), is known as   NT  same way that New South Wales is called NSW etc (we won't mention Tasmania - or what 'a map of Tasmania' may represent of the female form).

 

The campaign said 'C U in the NT'

 

well, BBC News has reported the following

 

http://www.bbc.com/n...tralia-38400918

 

About Tasmania:

 

Map Of

 

https://en.wiktionar...map_of_Tasmania

 

4642383133720592d453b58c908d5312.gif


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#53 sunday

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 0437 AM

 

 

 

Not really
 
Infrastructure primarily was set up using AC because it's relatively easy to transform voltages, and high voltages mean lower currents and lower currents mean lower losses.
 
I think that if infrastructure was being created now, it would be more likely to be DC, because AC s actually more lossy for various reasons that I don't fully understand - capacitance in the cables, inductive coupling and such spring to mind.

 
Still transformers are simpler to operate, and more robust than AC/DC converters, but for long distances and several other applications like submarine power transmission cables, or coupling between grid islands, DC is the way to go.
Some reasons on these links:
 
http://www.electrica...-ac-and-dc.html
http://electrical-en...ac-transmission
Maerklin* trains are AC, cheapo are DC, so you can kiss my Eisenbahn.



*Sorry, no umlaut in this keyboard.

AC can better cope with differing and changing length of cable. Just think of all the devices connected and disconnected all the time from the electric power grid. When you have a known distance and known capacity requirements DC is in advantage. e.g. connecting an island to mainland power.


pahh, Märklin. I swear by Trix! ;)

 

 

Did not hear that reasoning before. However interrupting AC is easier than interrupting DC, so AC circuit breakers are smaller and simpler than DC ones for the same power. This has also been a reason to keep automotive DC voltage in the 12V range for so long.


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#54 RETAC21

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 0449 AM

 

Must have clicked on the wrong link in the Lamborghini page: http://www.lamborghi...tors.com/en-fe/


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#55 DougRichards

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 0615 AM

 

 

Must have clicked on the wrong link in the Lamborghini page: http://www.lamborghi...tors.com/en-fe/

 

 

The goats look happy

 

Whatever floats your goat

 

No Kidding, Lamborghini tows goats through Sydney

 

Meanwhile:

 

Gary the Goat:

 

https://en.wikipedia...i/Gary_the_Goat

 

and I have met, patted, and photographed Gary, seriously:

 

coogee_beach__sydney_by_dougthebear-d5bq

 

Yes, I took that photo


Edited by DougRichards, 06 January 2017 - 0623 AM.

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#56 Panzermann

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 0911 AM

What did the comedy shows look like? What did this Jimbo guy do with a goat in his shows?


 

AC/DC was also Australian slang for bisexual for a while there......

Makes sense.


Legend has it the band was named such, because the label on a vacuum cleaner inspired them.

Edited by Panzermann, 06 January 2017 - 0917 AM.

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#57 Ivanhoe

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 1024 AM

AC/DC was also Australian slang for bisexual for a while there......

 

Same in the States.


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#58 mnm

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 1809 PM

AC can better cope with differing and changing length of cable. Just think of all the devices connected and disconnected all the time from the electric power grid. When you have a known distance and known capacity requirements DC is in advantage. e.g. connecting an island to mainland power.
pahh, Märklin. I swear by Trix! ;)


I have to concede a point, insofar as I am beaten by the umlaut gap. As for the rest, I'm sorry but you fall into heresy as you declare so and so is an advantage in connecting an island to mainland.

What is an island? Etymologically it is an 'insula' in Latin, something that is insulated, separate, removed from the rest. And why is an island an insula? Because the divine will ordered so, for reasons we can't fathom or sometimes we can. Cases in point: Sicily and the British Islands. These examples are obvious as they are inhabited by strange people who are better left alone, that is, insulated. The Sicilians speak a strange dialect, have half their cousins in America, shoot or knife each other like they eat confetti, and their cheese stinks like a Portuguese infantry barracks after a 30km march in high summer. So an entire island for them.

The British are what they are by themselves and leeching the Commonwealth of what's best in them was not enough to improve much. At least some cheese are sturdy enough to bump downhill while troves of hooligans do their worst to arrive at the bottom before the cheese. Two moderately decent British are Prince Philip and Nigel Farage. The British decided to do a Brexit which theoretically should be a voluntary insulation but in truth looks like a knife fight inside a coal bunker at midnight with the lights off. Insulate them, I say.

The Irish we'd like to spare as Great Britain got in the middle, and for the Emerald Isle to drift to the French or Spanish shore would take an inordinate amount of time, although less than an eternity. Besides, they wouldn't want to leave the Ulster behind, and frankly, whenever the Brits get into a scrap there they go like hooligans after a cheese to take the Queen's Shilling. Actually since Decimalisation the shilling ceased to be, so that's mainly a figure of speech.

In order to keep on topic I also have to mention Australia, another island but big as heck, 11 times the area of Texas, imagine that. Not much to say other than the place was so insulated already that the British (remember them?) used it to further insulate convicts.

So do not figure ways to connect islands to the mainland or your soul will be in immediate peril.
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#59 DougRichards

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 1902 PM

 

AC can better cope with differing and changing length of cable. Just think of all the devices connected and disconnected all the time from the electric power grid. When you have a known distance and known capacity requirements DC is in advantage. e.g. connecting an island to mainland power.
pahh, Märklin. I swear by Trix! ;)


I have to concede a point, insofar as I am beaten by the umlaut gap. As for the rest, I'm sorry but you fall into heresy as you declare so and so is an advantage in connecting an island to mainland.

What is an island? Etymologically it is an 'insula' in Latin, something that is insulated, separate, removed from the rest. And why is an island an insula? Because the divine will ordered so, for reasons we can't fathom or sometimes we can. Cases in point: Sicily and the British Islands. These examples are obvious as they are inhabited by strange people who are better left alone, that is, insulated. The Sicilians speak a strange dialect, have half their cousins in America, shoot or knife each other like they eat confetti, and their cheese stinks like a Portuguese infantry barracks after a 30km march in high summer. So an entire island for them.

The British are what they are by themselves and leeching the Commonwealth of what's best in them was not enough to improve much. At least some cheese are sturdy enough to bump downhill while troves of hooligans do their worst to arrive at the bottom before the cheese. Two moderately decent British are Prince Philip and Nigel Farage. The British decided to do a Brexit which theoretically should be a voluntary insulation but in truth looks like a knife fight inside a coal bunker at midnight with the lights off. Insulate them, I say.

The Irish we'd like to spare as Great Britain got in the middle, and for the Emerald Isle to drift to the French or Spanish shore would take an inordinate amount of time, although less than an eternity. Besides, they wouldn't want to leave the Ulster behind, and frankly, whenever the Brits get into a scrap there they go like hooligans after a cheese to take the Queen's Shilling. Actually since Decimalisation the shilling ceased to be, so that's mainly a figure of speech.

In order to keep on topic I also have to mention Australia, another island but big as heck, 11 times the area of Texas, imagine that. Not much to say other than the place was so insulated already that the British (remember them?) used it to further insulate convicts.

So do not figure ways to connect islands to the mainland or your soul will be in immediate peril.

 

 

Prince Phillip was nominally Greek


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#60 DougRichards

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 1904 PM

What did the comedy shows look like? What did this Jimbo guy do with a goat in his shows?


 
 

AC/DC was also Australian slang for bisexual for a while there......

Makes sense.


Legend has it the band was named such, because the label on a vacuum cleaner inspired them.

 

 

Vacuum cleaner or bagpipes?

 

Same thing: collects wind, makes noise.

 

http://ultimateclass.../bagpipe-songs/


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