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#301 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 0843 AM

Everyone wants to build VSTOL fighters these days, seem to have become deeply fashionable again.

 

https://chinadailyma...th-fighter-jet/

https://www.chinadai...nt_14381781.htm



#302 Ken Estes

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 1631 PM

Once again, the designation of Russian CVs as aviation cruisers is an evasion of the Montreux Treaty on the Straits. Nothing else. We must never think that the Rus are playing on an equal field.



#303 Josh

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 2212 PM

So long as they want to keep it too a STOVL ship, I'm happy to let the Russians waste their money. Particularly when they lack a STOVL aircraft. Honestly, this is just one more piece of Russian vaporware that won't see steel cut.

#304 Josh

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 2216 PM

Oh wait, before we even get to how stupid this idea is and what the source is, I just want to quote:

"There are only two countries in the world that have the technology to build VTOL fighters: Russia and Britain. The US is not included, as the US F-35B uses technology purchased from Russia."

Just wow. If we're going to use that metric, there's only one nation able to build a CATOBAR carrier: the US. The French one uses US cats.

EDIT 2 ADD: It just keeps getting better the more I read it:

"Russia is experienced not only in making the special engines but also quite a few other devices for VTOL fighters, for example the ejection seat for the pilot to escape when the VTOL fighter jet has a problem in taking off or landing."

When our shitty engine fails, our ejections seats won't!!! As if a zero/zero ejection seat is a new invention.

Edited by Josh, 25 September 2017 - 2221 PM.


#305 JasonJ

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 2248 PM

There are people that believe it too.



#306 Josh

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 2352 PM

Russian vaporware used to be more impressive.

#307 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 0155 AM

Oh wait, before we even get to how stupid this idea is and what the source is, I just want to quote:

"There are only two countries in the world that have the technology to build VTOL fighters: Russia and Britain. The US is not included, as the US F-35B uses technology purchased from Russia."

Just wow. If we're going to use that metric, there's only one nation able to build a CATOBAR carrier: the US. The French one uses US cats.

EDIT 2 ADD: It just keeps getting better the more I read it:

"Russia is experienced not only in making the special engines but also quite a few other devices for VTOL fighters, for example the ejection seat for the pilot to escape when the VTOL fighter jet has a problem in taking off or landing."

When our shitty engine fails, our ejections seats won't!!! As if a zero/zero ejection seat is a new invention.

 

Try America only. We got out of the VSTOL development business about 1986 when we cancelled any follow on Harrier development. And there was such a project, not that BAE could convince the Government of the day it was a good idea.



#308 mnm

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 1803 PM

Mention of a Russian ship named Kiev sounds somewhat awkward nowadays.



#309 Panzermann

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 0453 AM

Mention of a Russian ship named Kiev sounds somewhat awkward nowadays.

 

The  next chinese carrier is to be christened Taipei. :lol:



#310 Garth

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 0842 AM

Oh wait, before we even get to how stupid this idea is and what the source is, I just want to quote:

"There are only two countries in the world that have the technology to build VTOL fighters: Russia and Britain. The US is not included, as the US F-35B uses technology purchased from Russia."

.


That's not even true. LockMart developed its own proprietary swivel-nozzle design after the Yak-141 one they were looking at for the JSF proved ... suboptimal.

In fact, it looks like the Russian design was probably, ahem, stolen from US engineering studies and prototyping dating to the 1960s.

http://www.codeonema...tml?item_id=137

#311 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 0848 AM

Meant to post this before. Queen Elizabeths first entry into Portsmouth.



#312 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 0853 AM



#313 mnm

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 2139 PM

The next chinese carrier is to be christened Taipei. :lol:

But as the leadership of the CPC (Capitalist Party of China) is atheist how can they christen anything?

#314 rmgill

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 2304 PM

That's not even true. LockMart developed its own proprietary swivel-nozzle design after the Yak-141 one they were looking at for the JSF proved ... suboptimal.

In fact, it looks like the Russian design was probably, ahem, stolen from US engineering studies and prototyping dating to the 1960s.

http://www.codeonema...tml?item_id=137


That three bearing nozzle isn't much of a mystery to anyone who's done work on HVAC duct elbows.

https://www.amazon.c...l/dp/B013M5YUNM


chekov-chekov-russian-invention-demotiva


Edited by rmgill, 28 September 2017 - 2304 PM.


#315 Panzermann

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 0729 AM

right. first build and launch the ships and then see if they fit the harbours...
 

 

The Government have confirmed that planning is underway to evaluate the feasibility of berthing the Queen Elizabeth class carriers in Gibraltar.

Bob Stewart, MP for Beckenham asked in a written question to the Secretary of State for Defence:

“To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, what infrastructure and dredging will be required at the facilities at South Mole in Gibraltar to enable the Queen Elizabeth Class aircraft carriers to load (a) life support cargo, ( B) fuel supplies and © munitions directly from the dock side.”

Answered by Harriett Baldwin, Under Secretary of State for Defence Procurement:

“As part of forward planning for the Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers, the Royal Navy continues to review ports that would be accessible to these ships. This process includes the infrastructure requirements at South Mole in Gibraltar.”

This comes after Minister Mike Penning described the territory as a “massively significant base”.


Government ‘reviewing infrastructure requirements’ in order for carriers to berth in Gibraltar
By
George Allison
-
October 19, 2017



According to the Gibraltar Chronicle, Mr Penning also confirmed that HMS Queen Elizabeth would visit Gibraltar by Easter of 2018.

“Queen Elizabeth, the new aircraft carrier, will be here. She will moor in Gibraltar.”

Just incase you were wondering how big the carriers are compared to the territory:

Just how big is HMS Queen Elizabeth compared to Gibraltar? Here’s one we made earlier. #Supercarrier pic.twitter.com/ZdPRTugV71

— UK Defence Journal (@UKDefJournal) August 28, 2017

 

https://ukdefencejou...beth-gibraltar/



#316 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 0857 AM

In fairness, its a wee bit bigger than HMS Hood.

 

Too bad we dont have Malta still. Id love to see them try to get it into Valletta Harbour. :)



#317 Panzermann

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 1327 PM

In fairness, its a wee bit bigger than HMS Hood.

 

Too bad we dont have Malta still. Id love to see them try to get it into Valletta Harbour. :)

 

while yes the new ships are bigger, but that has been known for how lomg? two decades? that such big ships are going to be commissioned?

 

 

Which of the different harbours of Valletta? there is one of the busiest contaienr terminals in the EU, should ahve room for a big CV.



#318 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 0153 AM

I have to be fair to the MOD on this one, nobody thought they would get as far as building one, let alone 2 aircraft carriers. I know I certainly did not. :)

 

They have done a lot of work at Portsmouth to figure out how to get her into port, for which they had to dredge. They had to do a historical survey of the bay, revealing quite a few interesting details, including the front forehalf of Mary Rose that has yet to be recovered.

 

I think its a case of, get them into service, then worry about foreign deployments. Not much point spending money on the latter if all we had was another CV01.



#319 a77

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 0258 AM

Oh wait, before we even get to how stupid this idea is and what the source is, I just want to quote:

"There are only two countries in the world that have the technology to build VTOL fighters: Russia and Britain.

 

both US, Germany and France did build prototyp VTOL fighters... they was not successful designs and no was mass produced.... but the teconlogy was there....

 

#320 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 0417 AM

What one did West Germany build? I remember the 'missile with a starfighter on it' system, but not an actual vstol fighter. They were working on a light transport powered by pegasus engines that looked promising.

 

France, I seem to recall that had a system based on a Mirage III?






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