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The Great Camo Boondoggle


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#41 Dawes

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 1016 AM

Supposedly the US Army was set to introduce their new camo this month. Now what - back to the drawing board?


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#42 shep854

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 1109 AM

Dunno know if it's true but I Marine Lt Col that I went to DLI with said that originally the Marines asked the Army to join in on their new camo and the Army told them that they weren't interested.  Only after the Army said no, did they do the copyright thing.  Judging by the Army buffonery I see on a daily basis in the joint SOF command I work at, I don't doubt this story for a minute...
The AF camo is the dumbest thing.  Ever.  What morons decided to to repeat the winter-weight BDU debacle? 

 

How the services have the absolute unmitigated gall to whine about the budget with all the money they wasted on separate uniforms is simply beyond me....

It would be grand if the Marines 'just happened' to have a way to drop the EGAs and graciously offer to help the Army out now, with a Congressional mandate... :P


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#43 mnm

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 1250 PM

Its almost like the absurdity surround 'la Pantalon Rouge'.

 

...

 

Vive Le Elegance. :D

 

Your foreign language abilities are enviable :P


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#44 Kenneth P. Katz

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 1448 PM

Play close attention, DoD. If you don't want to be micromanaged by the clowns in Congress, then don't be such a bunch of buffoons that by comparison Congress looks sensible.

 

Looks like Congress settled the issue for all the services:

 

http://www.airforcet...across-services


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#45 Kenneth P. Katz

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 1453 PM

I get to differ, and defend the honor of the USAF. The new Navy cam is the dumbest thing. Unbelievably ugly and worse, it tends to conceal a sailor who falls overboard. The new USAF camo is merely the second dumbest thing ever.

 

The AF camo is the dumbest thing.  Ever.


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#46 shep854

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 1727 PM

I get to differ, and defend the honor of the USAF. The new Navy cam is the dumbest thing. Unbelievably ugly and worse, it tends to conceal a sailor who falls overboard. The new USAF camo is merely the second dumbest thing ever.

 

The AF camo is the dumbest thing.  Ever.

Second the squids.  I believe the RAN had reflective strips sewn into their naval cam uniforms for just that reason.  The USAF added to their dumb score with the green boots, tho.


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#47 Calvinb1nav

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 1738 PM

I have to wear that stupid ABU everyday and trust me, it's beyond stupid.  As for the Navy, at least they had some rationale (it hides grease stains) for the colors beyond "it looks cool" .  As for it hiding you when you fall overboard, I thought most Navy guys wear a water-activated strobe light when they are working outside on the deck. 

 

I get to differ, and defend the honor of the USAF. The new Navy cam is the dumbest thing. Unbelievably ugly and worse, it tends to conceal a sailor who falls overboard. The new USAF camo is merely the second dumbest thing ever.

 

The AF camo is the dumbest thing.  Ever.


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#48 TonyE

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 1921 PM

Remember: worst dressed Army wins the war.

No wonder the British Army did so well in WW2.

 

You kind of have to reflect, why the concern over multiple different kinds of camoflage uniforms, in an era when thermal imagers are increasingly making them irrelevant anyway? Its almost like the absurdity surround 'la Pantalon Rouge'. Maxim guns didnt give a toss what colour they were.

"Red trousers are France!" makes way more sense than the current US uniform debate. ;)


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#49 A2Keltainen

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 1948 PM

"Red trousers are France!" makes way more sense than the current US uniform debate. ;)

I thought it was: "Brown-stained trousers, and white flags, are France!" (Ducking to avoid all the incoming snails and empty wine bottles.)  :D


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#50 Simon Tan

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 1949 PM

The Murricans did the whole Zouave thing in the ACW.


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#51 Ivanhoe

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 2053 PM

Im reminded of one of the really commendable things McNamara did when he got into office, make sure all the services used a common boot. It defies imagination how much it probably cost beforehand to buy in different types for each service.

 

In 1960, the US military was something like 2.5M swingin' Richards. Marines were the smallest branch at 170k, Army the largest at 873k. For something that is essentially hand-assembled, I don't think there are big savings for consolidating production or distribution. Lets say a total of 12 sizes, times 4 services, 48 NSNs. How many NSNs involved in retiring, say, the Norfolk class destroyers? And ratings, too; eliminate the Steam Horn De-Scaling Mate, you probably save enough to have all your boots gold-plated.

 

But there's quite a difference in footwear needs between an Army Ranger and a forklift operator. Same branch, wildly different environment. And then you've got the really oddball outfits, like the Army divers; yes, Army, but operating on wet decks. Or Navy SEALs and UDTs, versus Seabees.

 

But boots are an extremely interesting topic. The Old School mindset was that your feet had to adapt to what Uncle Sam issued. Now they've got half-sizes, different widths, etc. As of the GWOT, soldiers can go with a number of alternative boots with their ACUs. At some point, the Army and/or Marine Corps will try a boot with some kind of custom footbed, and maybe even semi-custom removable liners. When you think of all the downtime and health care expenses that could possibly be saved, it ought to be looked at.


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#52 Simon Tan

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 2227 PM

How did troops protect their knees when wearing shorts other than being careful wen kneeling and dropping prone? I assume that high socks helped with shins.


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#53 Simon Tan

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 2229 PM

Surely the AF wears overalls or some other technically useful garment for work dress?


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#54 rmgill

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 2255 PM

I think the folks running equipment in the Navy/Air Force and log side of things should be wearing a standard or limited standard set of COT's Steel or composite toe shoes. Plenty of those in industry to work. My buddy Don who's ex-navy still has his favorite set of boots for this sort of thing that he wears when doing anything heavy that might impinge on toes. 


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#55 Ivanhoe

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 2310 PM

Maybe not the best camo on the left;

 

Astoria0016.jpg

 

US Army uni in the Spanish-American War on the left, WWI on the right. Modern repros worn by reenactors. The hat, though looks pretty darn practical. Beats the hell out of a beret.


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#56 Colin

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 0107 AM

How did troops protect their knees when wearing shorts other than being careful wen kneeling and dropping prone? I assume that high socks helped with shins.

I think they were just tougher, mind life on civy street back then was not easy either.

 

 

 


Edited by Colin, 08 June 2013 - 0108 AM.

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#57 rmgill

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 0132 AM

Lots of training in shorts will harden up the skin too. 


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#58 A2Keltainen

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 0449 AM

Ive never seen the need to develop my impeccable French skills, with all the Croissants I eat I must fit in like a native anyway. :P

Aaah, so is this the Stuart Galbraith school of Finnish and Russian language studies?

 

Drinking two liters of cheap vodka a day,

keeps the boring glossaries and grammars away,

and makes you both fluent and brave enough to say,

to the huge muscular bully that he's a girlieman gay.

 

:D


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#59 Dawes

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 1042 AM

I thought the UK's DPM (both woodland and desert patterns) was a quite effective camo. Guess they wanted to jump on the Multicam bandwagon too.


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#60 Yama

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 1147 AM

Ive never seen the need to develop my impeccable French skills, with all the Croissants I eat I must fit in like a native anyway. :P

Aaah, so is this the Stuart Galbraith school of Finnish and Russian language studies?

 

Drinking two liters of cheap vodka a day,

keeps the boring glossaries and grammars away,

and makes you both fluent and brave enough to say,

to the huge muscular bully that he's a girlieman gay.

 

:D

 

Wisdom lives here:

1288333234566.jpg


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