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#21 nitin

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 0410 AM

I missed posting the philately link above:
http://shoebox.heind...e-IndiaBose.htm
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#22 RajKhalsa

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 1105 AM

I'm sure certain tanknet menber (s) will quickly post 15+ reference in regards to this:

5 of them will say this a big lie by the Brit
4 of them claim those are not Indian
3 of them claim those are Pakistani
2 of them will blame on the evil Pakistan
1 of them will said those are photoshop image by the evil Chinese commie

the rest wil put  the US liberal media and Nepal's Royal house at fault

:lol:

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Wow, you're a dumbass.
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#23 RajKhalsa

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 1112 AM

Anyone claiming that this is urban legend, or, as the Chinese poster claims, trying to whitewash it either is incredibly ignorant, or willfully trying to subvert basic fact.

The existance of the Azad Hind or INA is hardly unknown or knowlege spurned. While India raised the largest voulnteer military in the history of humanity to fight the axis, Indian independence fighters also fought the British who committed acts of tyranny against India not unlike what the Axis powers did in their occupied countries.

Here's an article from on Subash Chandra Bose

-Raj


Netaji Subas Chandra Bose

While the Gandhi /Nehru faction of Congress has garnered much of the credit for India's freedom struggle, it is important to remember that India's freedom movement was in fact a movement of the masses and there were a number of great leaders with fierce patriotism and great visionary ideas who sacrificed their entire lives for the nation's cause. We continue our series on the freedom fighters, on the occasion of Netaji's 102nd birthday.
-Jyotsna Kamat
January 26, 1999
India's Republic Day



Known as Netaji (leader), Mr. Bose was a fierce and popular leader in the political scene in pre-independence India . He was the president of the Indian National Congress in 1937 and 1939, and founded a nationalist force called the Indian National Army.

Subhas Chandra was born on January 23rd 1897 in Cuttack (in present day Orissa) as the ninth child among fourteen, of Janakinath Bose, an advocate, and Prabhavatidevi, a pious and God-fearing lady. A brilliant student, he topped the matriculation examination of Calcutta province and passed his B.A. in Philosophy from the Presidency College in Calcutta. He was strongly influenced by Swami Vivekananda's teachings and was known for his patriotic zeal as a student. His parents' wishes kept him away from the Indian freedom struggle and led him into studies for the Indian Civil Service in England. Although he finished those examinations also at the top of his class (4th), he could not complete his aprecentship and returned to India, being deeply disturbed by the Jallianwalla Bagh massacre. He came under the influence of Mahatma Gandhi and joined the Indian National Congress (a.k.a. Congress). Gandhiji directed him to work with Deshbandhu Chittaranjan Das, the Bengali leader whom Bose acknowledged as his political guru.

Bose was outspoken in his anti-British stance and was jailed 11 (eleven) times between 1920 and 1941 for periods varying between six months and three years. He was the leader of the youth wing of the Congress Party, in the forefront of the trade union movement in India and organized Service League, another wing of Congress. He was admired for his great skills in organization development .


The Influence of Bose

Bose advocated complete freedom for India at the earliest, whereas the Congress Committee wanted it in phases, through a Dominion status. Other younger leaders including Jawaharlal Nehru supported Bose and finally at the historic Lahore Congress convention, the Congress had to adopt Poorna Swaraj (complete freedom) as its motto. Bhagat Singh's martyrdom and the inability of the Congress leaders to save his life infuriated Bose and he started a movement opposing the Gandhi-Irvin Peace Pact. He was imprisoned and expelled from India. But defying the ban, he came back to India and was imprisoned again!

Clouds of World War II were gathering fast and Bose warned the Indian people and the British against dragging India into the war and the material losses she could incur. He was elected president of the Indian National Congress twice in 1937 and in 1939, the second time defeating Gandhiji's nominee. He brought a resolution to give the British six months to hand India over to the Indians, failing which there would be a revolt. There was much opposition to his rigid stand, and he resigned from the post of president and formed a progressive group known as the Forward Block (1939).

The second World War broke out in September of 1939, and just as predicted by Bose, India was declared as a warring state (on behalf of the British) by the Governor General, without consulting Indian leaders. The Congress party was in power in seven major states and all state governments resigned in protest.

Subhas Chandra Bose now started a mass movement against utilizing Indian resources and men for the great war. To him, it made no sense to further bleed poor Indians for the sake of colonial and imperial nations. There was a tremendous response to his call and the British promptly imprisoned him . He took to a hunger-strike, and after his health deteriorated on the 11th day of fasting, he was freed and was placed under house arrest. The British were afraid of violent reactions in India, should something happen to Bose in prison.


The Mystery Begins...

Bose suddenly disappeared in the beginning of 1941 and it was not until many days that authorities realized Bose was not inside the house they were guarding! He traveled by foot, car and train and resurfaced in Kabul (now in Afghanistan), only to disappear once again. In November 1941, his broadcast from German radio sent shock waves among the British and electrified the Indian masses who realized that their leader was working on a master plan to free their motherland. It also gave fresh confidence to the revolutionaries in India who were challenging the British in many ways.

The Axis powers (mainly Germany) assured Bose military and other help to fight the British. Japan by this time had grown into another strong world power, occupying key colonies of Dutch, French, and British colonies in Asia. Bose had struck alliance with Germany and Japan. He rightly felt that his presence in the East would help his countrymen in freedom struggle and second phase of his saga began. It is told that he was last seen on land near Keil canal in Germany, in the beginning of 1943. A most hazardous journey was undertaken by him under water, covering thousands of miles, crossing enemy territories. He was in the Atlantic, the Middle East, Madagascar and the Indian ocean. Battles were being fought over land, in the air and there were mines in the sea. At one stage he traveled 400 miles in a rubber dinghy to reach a Japanese submarine, which took him to Tokyo. He was warmly received in Japan and was declared the head of the Indian army, which consisted of about 40,000 soldiers from Singapore and other eastern regions. Bose called it the Indian National Army (INA) and a government by the name "Azad Hind Government" was declared on the 21st of October 1943. INA freed the Andaman and Nicobar islands from the British, and were renamed as Swaraj and Shaheed islands. The Government started functioning.

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^Bose in INA Uniform 1943


Early Success and Tragic End

Bose wanted to free India from the Eastern front. He had taken care that Japanese interference was not present from any angle. Army leadership, administration and communications were managed only by Indians. Subhash Brigade, Azad Brigade and Gandhi Brigade were formed. INA marched through Burma and occupied Coxtown on the Indian Border. A touching scene ensued when the solders entered their 'free' motherland. Some lay down and kissed, some placed pieces of mother earth on their heads, others wept. They were now inside of India and were determined to drive out the British! Delhi Chalo (Let's march to Delhi) was the war cry.

The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki changed the history of mankind. Japan had to surrender. Bose was in Singapore at that time and decided to go to Tokyo for his next course of action. Unfortunately, the plane he boarded crashed near Taipei and he died in the hospital of severe burns. He was just 48.

The Indian people were so much enamored of Bose's oratory and leadership qualities, fealressness and mysterious adventures, that he had become a legend. They refused to believe that he died in the plane crash. The famous Red Fort trial wherein Bose's generals and the INA officers were tried, became landmark events. Initially, the British Government thought of a court-martial, but there was a countrywide protest against any kind of punishment. For common Indians, Axis and Allied powers hardly mattered, but they could not tolerate punishment of fellow countrymen who were fighting for freedom. The British Government was in no position to face open rebellion or mutiny and a general amnesty for INA soldiers was declared.

While Bose's approach to Indian freedom continues to generate heated debate in the Indian society today, there is no denying of his burning patriotism, his tireless efforts to free India from inside and outside and his reckless adventures in trying to reach his goals. His exploits later became a legend due to the many stories carried by the disbanded INA soldiers who came from every nook and corner of our great country.

Had he lived, Subhas Chandra Bose could have given a new turn to Independent India's political history. But he lives on eternally in the Indian mind, more famous after his death.

-


Some more photos of the Indian National Army
Posted Image
^ INA stamp with Netaji Bose

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^Netaji Bose with troops

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^ Calcutta University Territorials, 1918. Armed with U.S. Model 1914 rifles and Pattern 1913 bayonets. Standing second from right, with glasses, is Subhas Chandra Bose, who in later years rose to become the leader of the famed Indian National Army.

Posted Image
^ The INA in formation at a parade addressed by Netaji - 1943

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^ INA publicity pamplet - 1943

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^ Indian National Army Monument, Singapore, dedicated to an Unknown Warrior of the Indian National Army

Posted Image

Posted Image
^ INA Soldier

Edited by RajKhalsa, 21 August 2005 - 1222 PM.

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#24 Mobius

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 1124 AM

I supported Bose, I bought his radio.
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#25 RajKhalsa

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 1149 AM

Actually, the Bose Corporation was started by Amar Gopal Bose whose father was a Revolutionary fighting for Indian Independence.


If anyone's interested, you can

download the INA Anthem, Kadam Kadam Bhadaye Jaa, which is now played by Indian Para-Military and National Cadet Corps forces. [mp3 format, 2.4mb]

Kadam Kadam is regarded as one of the most patriotic songs in India. It was composed by Indian National Army's Captain Ram Singh Thakuri, a Gorkha soldier who composed much of the INAs and India's favorite songs, including the musical composition of the Indian National Anthem.

Edited by RajKhalsa, 21 August 2005 - 1157 AM.

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#26 Nobu

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 1357 PM

Indian independence fighters also fought the British who committed acts of tyranny against India not unlike what the Axis powers did in their occupied countries.

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Would it be accurate to say that the INA gathered most of its manpower from Japanese POW camps?

British and European acts of tyranny in Asia? I was under the impression that only the Japanese were guilty of tyrannical ambitions in Asia. Thanks for the clarification.
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#27 FlyingCanOpener

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 1513 PM

Its hardly urban history or legend! The Bose INA thing and the Indian Legend is very well documented.
As a matter of fact, any search on the Indian troops throws up dozens of links, even with cursory keywords.
Bose and his history are pretty well documented. The man had noble intentions [from the Independence pov] but he ended up having to ask those for aid, who were much worse and no better than the Raj [and in many policies much worse].

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Note how I said how it was nice to see the notion of it being an urban legend being debunked.

In case you're not sure, not everything that is ever stated that isn't 100% flattering of Indian History/Heritage/Anything else should be construed as being anti-Indian. I know the South Asian contingent here has problems with this sometimes, but it's the truth...
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#28 R011

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 1544 PM

Indian independence fighters also fought the British who committed acts of tyranny against India not unlike what the Axis powers did in their occupied countries.

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Like when the British herded millions of Indians into cattle cars and exterminated them, or when they used biological weapons, or perhaps when British soldiers routinely massacred the inhabitants of villages in which they spent the night?? Did I miss when Gandhi and Bose were sent to concentration camps, or hung from piano wire for peaceful opposition to British rule? How many Indian women were enslaved as Briish Army comfort women to be raped, and murdered?

I won't claim that British rule was always sweetness and light, even by contemporay standards (much different in eighteenth century India than today) but at its worst, it never approached the levels of the Nazis and Japanese.

To him, it made no sense to further bleed poor Indians for the sake of colonial and imperial nations.

Unless they're Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan.

resurfaced in Kabul (now in Afghanistan),


Now in Afghanistan? Was it somewhere else in 1941?

his broadcast from German radio sent shock waves among the British and electrified the Indian masses who realized that their leader was working on a master plan to free their motherland.

So electrified were they that they joined the British Empire's Indian Army in record numbers.

INA freed the Andaman and Nicobar islands from the British,


Which had been occupied by Japan on 21 March 1942, a year before the INA was formed and while Bose was still in Germany working with Hitler.

Edited by R011, 21 August 2005 - 2032 PM.

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#29 nitin

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 1745 PM

Note how I said how it was nice to see the notion of it being an urban legend being debunked.


Hmm, we are arguing over semantics here, but what you dont seem to get is that its common knowledge. Not to breathless journalists perhaps, but to all those who followed the WW2 back and forth, there have been many references, repeated at that.

In case you're not sure, not everything that is ever stated that isn't 100% flattering of Indian History/Heritage/Anything else should be construed as being anti-Indian. I know the South Asian contingent here has problems with this sometimes, but it's the truth...

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Errm...that was rather patronising, and secondly, I already knew that. :rolleyes:
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#30 nitin

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 1746 PM

[quote]R011,Sun 21 Aug 2005 2044
Like when the British herded millions of Indians into cattle cars and exterminated them, or when they used ogical weapons, or perhaps when British soldiers routinely massacred the inhabitants of villages in which they spent the night?? Did I miss when Gandhi and Bose were sent to concentration camps, or hung from piano wire forpeaceful opposition to British rule? How many Indian women were enslaved as Briish Army comfort women to be raped, and murdered?[/quote]I won't claim that British rule was always sweetness and light, even by contemporay standards (much differnt in eighteenth century India than today) but at its worst, it never approached the lervels of the Nazis and Japanese.Unless they're Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan.Now in Afghanistan? Was it somewhere else in 1941?. So electrified were they that they joined the British Empire's Indian Army in record numbers.

Which had been occupied by Japan on 21March 1942, a year before the INA was formed and while Bose was still in Germany working with Hitler.[/quote]


This is getting way off topic as it is and we are heading into the usual Colonial flame fest.

Guys [Raj also], please drop it.

Edited by nitin, 21 August 2005 - 1748 PM.

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#31 nitin

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 1749 PM

I supported Bose,  I bought his radio.

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:blink: :P :D
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#32 RajKhalsa

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 1750 PM

OK Nitin, I won't reply further. Except this link:
http://en.wikipedia...._famine_of_1943
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#33 Rickshaw

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 1851 PM

Indian independence fighters also fought the British who committed acts of tyranny against India not unlike what the Axis powers did in their occupied countries.


While the Bengal famine was perhaps comparable in size, it wasn't in motivation. The Amritsa Massacre can be compared in motivation perhaps but not in size. They're the only two major events I can think of which fit this description. What others are you suggesting should be considered?
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#34 RajKhalsa

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 1908 PM

Begging Nitin's indulgence (this will be my last post), to clarify

Britian's motivations were irrelevant to the fact that millions of Indians were killed in preventable famines, not just Bengal, simply because the colonial leadership did not deem the lives of the Indian worthy. Added to this tens of thousands of Indian's killed in preventable violence, not curbed for political reasons agaisnt the Indian populace, hundreds of thousands of Indians jailed without trial in deplorable conditions, some similar to gulags, simply for demanding equal rights, zero political representation in the decision making process, etc., etc.

It doesn't matter if the British were marginally better than the Nazis or Japanese. They were still imperialists who committed unspeakable acts of brutality and suppressed and plundered through outright violence or through proxy of starvation the Indian.

A simplified analogy: it really doesn't matter if you murder someone out of cold-blooded psychopathy, or simply because you found it mildly bothersome to stop the pulling of the trigger. At the end of the day you're still a murderer.


It's a different world today, but it is still no excuse for the white-washing of history. It is for this reason that Netaji Bose is so revered by Indians. Because he had the balls to demand freedom at any cost.
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#35 R011

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 2019 PM

It doesn't matter if the British were marginally better than the Nazis or Japanese

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It's clear you have no idea of the enormity of Nazi and Japanese crimes nor do you care. There is no point in arguing further with malevolent nationionalist ignorance like this.

Edited by R011, 21 August 2005 - 2022 PM.

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#36 RajKhalsa

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 2141 PM

...right. Air out some dirty laundry and all of a sudden I'm a virtual Japanophile or anti-Semite. It's quite clear who you are trying to equate me to. :rolleyes:

Your knee-jerk statements pretty well spell out your mentality.

I'm so glad you feel so glib about the starvation to death of millions of children, women and men, and that the denying of basic fundamental rights and freedoms to hundreds of millions weighs so lightly on your conscience.


Yes. There is no arguing with such a malevolently arrogant atrocity apologist. Tell me this, though: do you feel first degree murderers should be punished, and second degree murderers should be slapped on the wrist?

Edited by RajKhalsa, 21 August 2005 - 2149 PM.

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#37 AaronK

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 2301 PM

This is a wrong forum for me to be a jingo but still things need to be put in proper perspective.

I am sure it was in the interest of Japan to help India. There is nothing wrong with it to work with each other to achieve common goals. The common goal was ejection of unwanted British Empire from Asia.
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#38 AaronK

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 2331 PM

Rajkhalsa,

I want to tank you for referring to the great Indian leader as Neta Jee. Ofcourse British are not going to like him. It was not the aim of Neta Jee to be liked by British. It was his aim to kick British out of India.

Here is a famous quote from Neta Jee:
“If you give me your blood, I will give you your freedom”.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No body in India gives a hoot about what British thought about Neta Jee or any other Indian who fought for independence of India. Neta Jee fought for Indians and that is what made him a hero to Indians.
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#39 nitin

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 0108 AM

This is a wrong forum for me to be a jingo but still things need to be put in proper perspective.

I am sure it was in the interest of Japan to help India. There is nothing wrong with it to work with each other to achieve common goals. The common goal was ejection of unwanted British Empire from Asia.

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The Japanese goal was to rule Asia, period. Asia for the Asians was a catchy slogan that did inspire many nationalist movements for self rule- I remember reading about a Malay text which spoke of the fervor such statements caused, but suffice to say that if the Axis had won the war and the Japanese held sway in India, it would be from the frying pan into the fire.
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#40 Rickshaw

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 0302 AM

Begging Nitin's indulgence (this will be my last post), to clarify

Britian's motivations were irrelevant to the fact that millions of Indians were killed in preventable famines, not just Bengal, simply because the colonial leadership did not deem the lives of the Indian worthy. Added to this tens of thousands of Indian's killed in preventable violence, not curbed for political reasons agaisnt the Indian populace, hundreds of thousands of Indians jailed without trial in deplorable conditions, some similar to gulags, simply for demanding equal rights, zero political representation in the decision making process, etc., etc.

It doesn't matter if the British were marginally better than the Nazis or Japanese. They were still imperialists who committed unspeakable acts of brutality and suppressed and plundered through outright violence or through proxy of starvation the Indian.

A simplified analogy: it really doesn't matter if you murder someone out of cold-blooded psychopathy, or simply because you found it mildly bothersome to stop the pulling of the trigger. At the end of the day you're still a murderer.
It's a different world today, but it is still no excuse for the white-washing of history. It is for this reason that Netaji Bose is so revered by Indians. Because he had the balls to demand freedom at any cost.

View Post



Thats a very simplistic response. Even the source you quoted, wikpedia makes it very clear that the reason why the Bengal famine occurred was more because of mismanagement, rather than necessarily because of deliberate genocidal intent on the part of the British. Motivation is indeed very important - the Allies killed millions of people. While some simplistically believe that means they were as bad as the Axis, the reality is that the motivations behind each set of killings is very different.
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