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#21 EchoFiveMike

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 0635 AM

Ruger barrels used to be crap, badly fouling, rough.  They tried to make a Palma rifle back in the day, maybe 1993'ish, as point of pride.  It was a debacle.  I think Ole Bill took that personal and committed to making stuff that didn't suck, ie CHF machines etc.  The Ruger Precision rifle and Hawkeye LR are pretty good.  I think they could benefit from a partnership like Weatherby/Kreiger, but probably too many guns going out the door for that sort of expansion to work.  S/F....Ken M


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#22 Chris Werb

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 0528 AM

I understand that the average, one time AR purchaser is probably going to go with something run of the mill, but when you have such a humongous market, there is a place for higher end manufacturers too, even if they are a small minority of sales. Ditto companies making upgraded everything, for repair, upgrade or home build. I have a 1980 Guns Digest annual somewhere. In it you would have had TWO options - a Colt SP-1 sporter or a semi only 16 inch barrel 753 equivalent. There was ONE AK, a Valmet M71. The present market offer is vast and extremely diverse. I wonder what a time traveller from 1980 would make of it?
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#23 BansheeOne

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 0537 AM

Nothing?

 


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#24 Chris Werb

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 0714 AM

Nothing?

 

 

I don't think your typical gunshop would stock an M202 even in 1985 :)  If you look at those guns (and I confess I didn't look too closely) you'll see they are all their basic military original or presumably a semiauto (and where necessary closed bolt operation) version thereof*. That's nothing compared to the incredible diversity available to the US consumer (at least in "gun friendly" states) today. I'm not a mathematician, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were currently more possible non-selective fire AR builds than there are electrons in the observable universe.

 

*Yes, it's possible they were full auto, the "ban" on new sales came in in 1986 and movie makers would have had a lot of full auto stuff even back then.


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#25 shep854

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 0919 AM

Don't go by Hollywood.  Full-auto and explosive devices are very strictly regulated and difficult to obtain legally.  Sadly, popular entertainment seems to be the primary source of information for those seeking to restrict access to firearms. :(


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#26 Chris Werb

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 1358 PM

Yes, I'm familiar with your national laws. It's actually arguably easier for a private individual to get a post 86 selective fire weapon here than in the US (google "HBSA + machine gun"). You will have seen a bunch of Forgotten Weapons videos Ian made at a movie guns rental company in Canada to get his hands on things he couldn't in the US. Some things you consider "destructive devices" are no harder to get here than a single shot .22 rifle. A 155mm howitzer and Ruger 10/22 are on the same licence here. My Ruger Mk 1 bull barrel is now a "prohibited weapon" and was smelted 22 years ago, but I can have a Chiftain tank with an operational main gun. Personally, I'd be far happier with Alabama gun laws, but I think they're right for Alabama, not the UK. I'd stick with our hunting and fishing laws though :)
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#27 bd1

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 1840 PM

legally, could you hunt with a chieftain tank then or is it unsportsmanlike?  :)


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#28 Chris Werb

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 1931 PM

legally, could you hunt with a chieftain tank then or is it unsportsmanlike?  :)

 

The problem would be that, with a Section 1 firearm, unlike a shotgun, you have to be granted "conditions" for its use that reflect the intended purpose(s) or "good reasons" for which you applied to possess it. If you put down "hunting" as a good reason, you would almost certainly be turned down*. Unfortunately you couldn't get around it by simply smoothboring the barrel as anything over 2 inches in calibre is at least Section 1 in status, but you could fit a subcalibre insert in the gun to up to 2 inch smoothbore and hunt with it, legally.

 

*And might receive a visit from the Police and your local Community Mental Health Team :)


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#29 shep854

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 2040 PM

Way too many Americans are grossly ignorant of USian gun laws--note the ridiculous claims during gun control agitation campaigns...


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#30 BansheeOne

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Posted 21 July 2019 - 0453 AM

The problem would be that, with a Section 1 firearm, unlike a shotgun, you have to be granted "conditions" for its use that reflect the intended purpose(s) or "good reasons" for which you applied to possess it. If you put down "hunting" as a good reason, you would almost certainly be turned down*. Unfortunately you couldn't get around it by simply smoothboring the barrel as anything over 2 inches in calibre is at least Section 1 in status, but you could fit a subcalibre insert in the gun to up to 2 inch smoothbore and hunt with it, legally.

 

A foxhunt steed for the gentleman of the 21st century!


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#31 bojan

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Posted 21 July 2019 - 0533 AM

20mm is close to 10g... Just saying :D


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#32 Chris Werb

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Posted 21 July 2019 - 1511 PM

20mm is close to 10g... Just saying :D

 

I think in the States 10g is the limit allowed on migratory wildfowl since laws came in to prevent market hunting in the 1900s. Here we still have a number of people who use "punt guns". Maximum calibre 1.75 inches.  :)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punt_gun

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=O9r_ZckAmkc


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#33 Stargrunt6

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Posted 26 July 2019 - 1653 PM


20mm is close to 10g... Just saying :D

 
I think in the States 10g is the limit allowed on migratory wildfowl since laws came in to prevent market hunting in the 1900s. Here we still have a number of people who use "punt guns". Maximum calibre 1.75 inches.  :)
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punt_gun
 
10ga is usually for turkey. I haven't seen a 10ga in stores for years.
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#34 Panzermann

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Posted 27 July 2019 - 0909 AM

10ga is usually for turkey. I haven't seen a 10ga in stores for years.


10 Gauge has had a bit of a renaissance in Europe, because lead shot is being frowned upon. To have the same mass thrown at fowl (or clay pigeons), some hunters switch to 10 ga steel shot.
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#35 Chris Werb

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Posted 27 July 2019 - 1305 PM

 

10ga is usually for turkey. I haven't seen a 10ga in stores for years.


10 Gauge has had a bit of a renaissance in Europe, because lead shot is being frowned upon. To have the same mass thrown at fowl (or clay pigeons), some hunters switch to 10 ga steel shot.

 

 

3.5" 12 ga pretty much obsoleted 10 ga in the US, because it offers almost the same capability in a lighter handier gun. I have heard that, with the same load of shot in the same choke, the 10 ga does pattern significantly better though.


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#36 GregShaw

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Posted 27 July 2019 - 1457 PM

 

 

10ga is usually for turkey. I haven't seen a 10ga in stores for years.


10 Gauge has had a bit of a renaissance in Europe, because lead shot is being frowned upon. To have the same mass thrown at fowl (or clay pigeons), some hunters switch to 10 ga steel shot.

 

 

3.5" 12 ga pretty much obsoleted 10 ga in the US, because it offers almost the same capability in a lighter handier gun. I have heard that, with the same load of shot in the same choke, the 10 ga does pattern significantly better though.

 

Shorter, squarer shot charges generally pattern better than longer charges. 


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