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German Tanks Captured By The Soviets At The End Of Wwii


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#1 Inhapi

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Posted 26 September 2018 - 0915 AM

i found this translation of an interesting document :

 

https://tankarchives...n-red-army.html

 

It lists the numbers and types of captured AFV's by some Soviet armies at the end of WWII. What surprises me is the large number if Pzkw III's. I guess these must have come from schools or something similar (or in storage). Altough i can find it difficult to reconcile this hypothesis why so many were captured in the Courland pocket.


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#2 Inhapi

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Posted 26 September 2018 - 0917 AM

Also, was there a concerted effort at this time to bring captured German equipment back to the SU at this late date apart from a few specimens for testing ?


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#3 DougRichards

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Posted 26 September 2018 - 1743 PM

Wiki notes that 700 Pz III were either built as or converted to Pz IIIN in 1942-1943, with the short 75mm KWK37.

 

These would still have been a valuable infantry support vehicle, so if the Germans were able to maintain them they would have kept using them.  They would not necessarily be used against Soviet armour as a first choice of employment but for other tasks would have been useful.  The US equivalent being the GMC M8.

 

 

As for why the Red Army was cataloguing the useful captured vehicles and what could and could not be repaired, perhaps they wanted to know what could be put back in action in case the Western Allies decided to liberate Germany and other parts of Middle Europe.


Edited by DougRichards, 26 September 2018 - 1850 PM.

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#4 Adam_S

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Posted 26 September 2018 - 1847 PM

Weren't Mark IIIs still being used as recon vehicles at the end of the war?


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#5 Gregory

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Posted 29 September 2018 - 1403 PM

Wiki notes that 700 Pz III were either built as or converted to Pz IIIN in 1942-1943, with the short 75mm KWK37.
 
These would still have been a valuable infantry support vehicle, so if the Germans were able to maintain them they would have kept using them.  They would not necessarily be used against Soviet armour as a first choice of employment but for other tasks would have been useful.  The US equivalent being the GMC M8.
 
 
As for why the Red Army was cataloguing the useful captured vehicles and what could and could not be repaired, perhaps they wanted to know what could be put back in action in case the Western Allies decided to liberate Germany and other parts of Middle Europe.


I doubt that. The logistics of keeping worn out equipment with no ready source of spares make the prospect of using them extremely unattractive, compared to receiving a brand new tank from thousands manufactured every month.

I’m guessing they were catalogued for melting down.
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#6 MiloMorai

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Posted 29 September 2018 - 1820 PM

Soviets used Fw190D-9s post war.

 

77dabaaeba42d30028fddcd35d9c93fa.jpg


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#7 DougRichards

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Posted 29 September 2018 - 1933 PM

 

Wiki notes that 700 Pz III were either built as or converted to Pz IIIN in 1942-1943, with the short 75mm KWK37.
 
These would still have been a valuable infantry support vehicle, so if the Germans were able to maintain them they would have kept using them.  They would not necessarily be used against Soviet armour as a first choice of employment but for other tasks would have been useful.  The US equivalent being the GMC M8.
 
 
As for why the Red Army was cataloguing the useful captured vehicles and what could and could not be repaired, perhaps they wanted to know what could be put back in action in case the Western Allies decided to liberate Germany and other parts of Middle Europe.


I doubt that. The logistics of keeping worn out equipment with no ready source of spares make the prospect of using them extremely unattractive, compared to receiving a brand new tank from thousands manufactured every month.

I’m guessing they were catalogued for melting down.

 

 

If they were only catalogued for melting down they would not have noted whether they were able to be repaired or not


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#8 R011

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Posted 29 September 2018 - 2331 PM

You could probably get a couple years or so of use out of them as training or rear area security vehicles before all the spares in store and from canibalization gave out. Same with the Lend Lease stuff.
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#9 DougRichards

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 0100 AM

Looking again at the data presented.  Missing are armoured cars / wheeled recon vehicles, but APCs are included, so the emphasis is on actual fighting vehicles and APCs.

 

Totaling the number of APCs that are repairable comes to around 500.  The Soviet Union did not produce APCs during the war, and when it could get them it used US half tracks and a smattering of Universal carriers.  500 APCs would be a useful asset if able to be put in service and used in one unit, or split between two units.

 

That would give, in general terms, two armoured mechanised Motor Rifle Brigades of infantry that could be attached to Tank Corps, a useful addition if things went hot between the Western allies and the Soviet Army in 1945 and with mobile warfare taking place.

 

The Soviets were not exactly in the forefront of APC development:  Post war the initial APC was the BTR-40. that could be considered as the equivalent of a long White Scout Car.

 

(wiki, yes I know: :P  notes about the White: that the Soviet Army received  3,034; these vehicles remained in service until at least 1947)

 

The next Soviet APC, the BTR-152 was virtually a wheeled M3 Half track.  Then again, form follows function.  But the BTR-152 was concurrent with the US M59 APC, which shows quite a difference in doctrine and design.  The Soviet Union received around 950 M5 half tracks both during and after the war.

 

So having around 500 extra armoured personnel carriers available to the Soviet Union in 1945 should not be discounted.

 

 

 

It should also be remembered that Czechoslovakia (as it was, and a member of the Warsaw Pac) produced a copy of the Sd.Kfz 251 as the Tatra OT-810, which if anything shows that what resembled a German APC was still possibly useful in the 1950s.


Edited by DougRichards, 30 September 2018 - 0108 AM.

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#10 DougRichards

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 0640 AM

Damn, ten days and I was looking forward to someone telling me I was talking out of my arse.  I really was just putting forward an idea hoping for more debate!


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#11 shep854

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 0902 AM

Soviets used Fw190D-9s post war.

 

77dabaaeba42d30028fddcd35d9c93fa.jpg

THIS is interesting.


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#12 MiloMorai

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 1354 PM

 

Soviets used Fw190D-9s post war.

 

77dabaaeba42d30028fddcd35d9c93fa.jpg

THIS is interesting.

 

 

More info, http://www.letletlet...0d-in-vvs-sssr/

 

fw190d_2.jpg

Captured Fw 190D-9 Baltic Fleet Air Forces pilots flew, June 1945.


Edited by MiloMorai, 10 October 2018 - 1357 PM.

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