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#1 Marek Tucan

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 0935 AM

This may come of an interest.

http://forum.worldof...n-in-clan-wars/

 

Looks promising :)


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#2 Skywalkre

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 1029 AM

I'm mixed on what little they've given us (though leaning towards the excited side).

 

Pros:

- Unique rewards (specifically the M60).  This is kind of a staple to MMO games where 'raiders' get something special for the time and effort they put in.  In my own clan there's a lot of guys on the edge of quitting because they've basically unlocked every tier 10, they can't stand playing normal matches, and CW right now is meh.  Hopefully stuff like this will keep them around.

- The NA page has a quote which is spot on for what I've seen of CW in the month or so I've been doing it:

A major objective of Campaigns is to make the map more dynamic. With the formations of large alliances over long periods of time, the Global Map can stagnate with diplomacy being more important than game skill.

My clan is extremely casual (which is frustrating for me) but in large part we don't need to be more.  The good clans largely ignore each other and the majority of our fights have been against clans which don't stand a chance against us (I've personally gone into CW matches and seen enemies fielding TOG II*s twice... those games were just a waste of time).  Hopefully they can find a way where we fight better opponents more often but our overall number of battles is less than it is now. 

 

Cons:

- The NA vid mentioned there will be four stages which feature different tiers of vehicles.  Ugh... really?  Why?  They claim that will get newer players into the game.  I don't buy it.  If someone only has a tier 3 vehicle, and all their friends do, I highly doubt they'll be able to find a group of friends, organize (this is the key, the best teams beat the best players), and present any real chance of doing something.  Now I'm forced to spend credits I don't have on lower tier vehicles I have zero desire to play all for some poorly thought out goal with no basis in reality.

- This campaign sounds very similar to the event they had on the NA CW map earlier this year.  That thing was an unmitigated disaster.

- The below quote worries me (bolding mine):

While diplomacy will still play a significant part in success, it will be harder to coordinate blocking the map with the objectives changing between stages. These changes should create a much more dynamic system with more battles per night as players fight over provinces to achieve these goals.

I don't want more battles per night.  I'd say there's too many right now in CW.  Also, as I mentioned above, most battles are just a waste of time.  I'd much prefer a set window of time (2 hours max) where a limited number of battles can take place.  As it stands now with CW some nights can go on till early morning for east coast players, the schedule is all over the place, and multiple battles will pop all at the same time so you can't fight them all.  That's no fun.

 

Also, are they going to revise their tournament schedule?  Right now CW can happen every night.  Various tournaments are going on and they have their battles at the same time as CW meaning my clan can sometimes be unable to field a whole team's worth of people because they're doing said tournaments.  Is WG going to fix that so folks can do both?


Edited by Skywalkre, 21 May 2013 - 1044 AM.

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#3 Skywalkre

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 1614 PM

Just when I had a glimmer of hope about CW WG goes and shows they still have zero clue how to do end-game content.

 

http://worldoftanks....aign-landlords/

 

There's so much wrong with this thing.

 

For starters there's fact that over the ten days this first part is running there's an escalating tier limit.  It starts with only tier 1s and ends with top tier being tier 6.  This is all before 8.6 comes into play so we'll have OP derp guns at tiers 4 and 5 and not-updated artillery dominating the field as well.

 

Some genius must've thought that since low tiers are involved this must be new player friendly... right?!  Oh wait, the top clans with the gold stockpiles and/or players with all their tournament winnings will be able to spend the gold to swap their multi-skilled crew down to lower tiers and move them up tiers as the campaign progresses.  If not that this gives folks the option to pay to win (which WG was supposedly trying to move away from) to simply buy the gold to do the same.

 

It's also very similar to the event they had when the NA map opened up here on the NA server, which as I mentioned was a complete disaster.  What does WG do after that?  Hey, let's repeat it! 

 

Just an asinine concept.  It's actually making me wish they'd just leave things as they are.


Edited by Skywalkre, 22 May 2013 - 1615 PM.

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#4 Skywalkre

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 1643 PM

I braved the forums and saw this good quote on the first page of the discussion thread.

 

Making it a tier 1 competition to "even things" is just dumb. All you get is new players with 70% crews fighting against veterans that used gold to transfer their 4-skills T57 crews to a tier 1. The result ? Veterans are bored to have to play tier 1s. New players are even more frustrated after getting roflstomped.

This would actually be a good event without the low tier crap.

Sums it up pretty well.


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#5 Skywalkre

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 1405 PM

I can't say this enough: fuck off to the devs who thought up this indiotic low tier CW idea.

 

Playing these low tier games to get a crew ready is not fun.  I doubt it's fun to the other team to go against someone like me who has a clue (got 13 kills in one game yesterday, wasn't enjoyable in the least).  I don't have the gold to simply retrain crews to 100% for tiers 1-6.  I spent 40% of the credits I had (which were being saved to buy another tier 10) to buy and equip these low tier tanks I'll be discarding as soon as this retarded event is over.

 

I haven't talked to anyone or read any comment from anyone commending this move.  Many NA CW participants still have negative memories from the similar disaster WG pulled earlier in the year.

 

Really, who out there can think this is a good thing and why?


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#6 Stefan Fredriksson

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 1437 PM

Why are you participating? Easy gold?
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#7 Skywalkre

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 1442 PM

Only way to get the M60.  Free gold (dumbass decisions like this are why I don't give them real money anymore).  Also, the occasional CW battle where the opponent offers a challenge (and my clan's leadership doesn't blow it off) can be entertaining.

 

This is effectively the end-game for WoT.  Most games with dev teams with a clue reserve end-game for the actual end-game (tier 10s in this case).


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#8 Stefan Fredriksson

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 1506 PM

Ok. I guess the idea looked good in theory.
Perhaps they should have consulted players? And I mean that for real, not just a blow-off to WG.
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#9 Skywalkre

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 1518 PM

Using low tiers was never good even in theory.

 

The feedback from the event earlier this year where something similar happened was universally negative from what I've seen.  There was no need for consultation, the playerbase told them how they felt and they were ignored.


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#10 Harold Jones

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 2006 PM

People on the boards were begging for low tiers to be useful in clan wars almost since it launched.  None of them wanted to hear that the same clans that were trouncing them with tier 10s would do so with tier 1-6 tanks as well.  Basically if there is free gold or stuff of any meaningful value the good clans will scoop it up. 


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#11 Skywalkre

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 2134 PM

Basically if there is free gold or stuff of any meaningful value the good clans will scoop it up. 

Yep.

 

At this point I wish they'd just revert with CW.  Drop the gold income slightly and have multiple tiers.  The top tier (US on the new map) with the most expensive lands would be where the top clans would sit and ignore each other.  Have a second tier (Latin America on the new map) with tier10 tanks being the max useable but less gold income.  The second-rate clans could sit and ignore each other here.  Finally, have a third tier (Canada and Alaska) where the max tier useable is 7 or 8.  Have it be much lower gold income but enough to whet the appetite of newcomers.  This third spot could be where they learn the art of negotiation (since that's what CW ultimately boils down to), and with some practice they could work their way up.

 

As for stuff like the M60 and special rewards, start up seasonal competitions along the lines of the skirmishes they have now.  Have it be 15 on 15 (which is what the frickin' rest of the game is), no strategic map (just battles on select maps), rank clans based on performance, and hand out awards at the end of the season.  These seasonal competitions would be all about the game which is exactly what CW is not right now.  Have gold bonuses as well so the top clans end up getting as much as they used to in CW (but everyone else gets slightly less so it spurs folks to focus on this part of the game).

 

I'm already losing interest in CW because most of what goes on goes on off the map and between leaders of clans.  If it wasn't for the free gold I'd already be on another hiatus from the game.


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#12 Skywalkre

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 2003 PM

Gave up on leveling crews for this event.  Spent the credits to destroy some secondary skills to get them to 100.  What little gold I have left (and will be getting before it starts) will go to retraining commanders and gunners to 100.  :glare:  I've actually found it more enjoyable to play my T34 than play those low tier games.

 

My concern now is that they'll consider this retarded idea and go tier 7 -> 10 on the next phase.  I have an ok tier 7 in the garage already (T71), a bad tier 8 (Indie), and no tier 9.  I'll have to play the T34 almost exclusively till this thing starts to have enough credits to get one and getting two is simply out of the question.

 

I can't say it enough - what an idiotic idea for CW.


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#13 Max H

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 0804 AM

So you're unhappy WG has made it hard to get the special reward tank, requiring more effort and new tactics compared to normal CW?


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#14 snafu_72

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 0850 AM

First lose sight of the goal and then redouble efforts in a mad dash to figure out WTF is going on in the game. If a player really wanted a Tier I battle then they can go get into one without the attendant monkey business. Second, as stated previously, a clan with tons of gold and crews at 100% in multiple areas will just bring those crews into lower tier games and smash everyone in the mouth. Next, rehashing alliances and gerrymandering the map is seriously flawed since there is a greater than normal chance that the same clans that have control now will have control after this effort. Finally, IMHO a strong clan will remain strong and a weak clan will remain weak regardless of maps and tiers. \

:wacko:


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#15 Skywalkre

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 0916 AM

So you're unhappy WG has made it hard to get the special reward tank, requiring more effort and new tactics compared to normal CW?

I'm unhappy they've made it annoying.  We've all wrote about the frustrations of playing this game at all tiers.  When forced to play with people who are brand new that issue is just exacerbated.  Some of those games I was in was with people who had just started playing.  There was no counting on them to support me.  There was not enough time to try and type out and inform them on how to play the game, the map, etc.  Who here, in other activities they take part in (be it sports, other forms of gaming, etc.) seek out brand new people to play with who have no clue on what to do when they themselves enjoy a high level of competition?

 

Also, it's no more effort than before.  With tank locking in effect I need all the tanks I can get.  I was grinding two more lines (T57 and Leo I) and had to put a halt to them to focus on this garbage.

 

Max H, if you think there's anything good to this idea I'm all ears.  I have yet to hear anything.


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#16 Skywalkre

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 0920 AM

Next, rehashing alliances and gerrymandering the map is seriously flawed since there is a greater than normal chance that the same clans that have control now will have control after this effort.

:wacko:

There's already talk of a 'fix' being put in place by the top clans of carving up the map to make sure they are all in the top 30 to get the M60.  That's not all that different than what goes on now with CW.  WoT end-game is all about the politics and almost nothing about the actual gameplay.  :glare:

 

Finally, IMHO a strong clan will remain strong and a weak clan will remain weak regardless of maps and tiers. \

:wacko:

This.


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#17 Skywalkre

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 1643 PM

Once again - thanks to whoever thought up this awesome low tier idea (that's sarcasm, btw, and I can't ridicule the idea enough).  I'm down to just trying to knock out dailies on the tanks I have and it brings me close to wanting to throw my pc out the window every time.  I'm amazed I stuck with this game with the way these low tier games play out (RNG is even worse than at high tier, armor is worthless... what hooked me?!).

 

Today I finally made back all the credits I spent buying these low tier tanks (there's one tier I haven't bought yet, so more expenses are to come).  That was a wonderful feeling of accomplishment.  :glare:


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#18 Marek Tucan

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 1735 PM

Did your clan consider, for example, skipping the low tier phase, concentrating on later, higher tier stages?

 

The point is: You don't HAVE to. It is the same as some clans opting to concentrate on tournaments etc. instead of Clan Wars - you can concentrate on later stages. That would require playing better at the later stages, but on the other hand would require less vehicles, retraining etc.

 

One issue here is probably vast difference between number of active players (and competent to bot) between USA and Europe, let alone Russia - in Europe the number of clans is higher and number of competent clans as well, so (especially after riots) big alliances don't crumble, but are more vulnerable to nibbling on edges and even in the center. While we obviously have big alliances and powerful clans, map seems to be more dynamic, with more "real" battles and less pre-arranged ones. The drive to get M60s will be stronger here most likely. On NA things got often washed down in the past due to smaller player base, but since this is supposed to be global event (and CW are eventually supposed to offer interaction between regions)...


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#19 Skywalkre

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 2113 PM

I'd prefer a CW where I want to take part in everything, not skip something because it features some poorly thought out gimmick (and that's all low tier is, it says something about the balance and state of the game that end-game isn't fine with just tier 10s all the time). 

 

As for my clan we're taking part in it because a few of our officers have done this low tier stuff before.  They have experience so think we have an edge (against the clans we'll actually face), but it's not like any enjoyed those previous low tier affairs.

 

The more I look at prep for this on the NA server the more I wish they'd get rid of the map and just make it a tournament.  If they're unwilling to adjust the map for the much smaller playerbase (are you saying the EU and RU servers actually have real clans fighting each other on the global map and less politics deciding things beforehand?) then try something else.


Edited by Skywalkre, 29 May 2013 - 2128 PM.

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#20 Marek Tucan

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 0104 AM

There is plenty of politics involved, don't take me wrong - but there seems to be much higher pressure from strong independent clans (who often do "campaigns" anyway - they go on rampage for two weeks and then they withdhraw to do something else until, two months later, rampage again - some eSport clans do it, for example) or small alliances, and there is more good smaller clans thanks to higher playerbase.

 

The scene was pretty static for a long time (similar to US), but as population of EU server grown, it became more dynamic. As much as I loathe to say it, transfer of some clans from RU server some time ago helped to kick in the door.

 

On the US server... Let's just say that as "older" Western office NA got a bit more a bit earlier and it seems it was a bit poisonous gift - too big area considering the number of clans (for some time, NA CW map was bigger than EU one).


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