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Q Carbon -- Harder Than Diamond

diamond q-carbon ceramic armor armour

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#1 TTK Ciar

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Posted 01 December 2015 - 1313 PM

Just saw this, and my first thought was, "What would be the mass efficiency of a metal/ceramic composite incorporating q-carbon?":

http://phys.org/news...emperature.html

Second thought was, "Hey this doesn't look like it would be too hard to mass-produce".
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#2 Mike Steele

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Posted 01 December 2015 - 1927 PM

Just saw this, and my first thought was, "What would be the mass efficiency of a metal/ceramic composite incorporating q-carbon?":

http://phys.org/news...emperature.html

Second thought was, "Hey this doesn't look like it would be too hard to mass-produce".

"Hold my beer and watch this..."


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#3 lemd

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 0012 AM

Does it need toughness? Since glass is quite hard and cheap, but it is not used as in metal matrix armor.


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#4 TTK Ciar

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 0132 AM

Ceramic is used for its high hardness to achieve specific effects. It doesn't absorb significant energy, but it does deform penetrators, sometimes extremely (qv interface defeat). None of the ceramics typically used in armor are particularly tough. De Beers developed Syndie armor, which is synthetic diamonds cast in steel and has a fantastic mass and thickness efficiency.

ceramics.2010-10-23.png

http://ciar.org/ttk/...ndberg.2000.pdf

Edited by TTK Ciar, 03 December 2015 - 0134 AM.

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#5 Corinthian

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 0232 AM

I was wondering about the armour applications of diamonds and thought it was a silly idea. Didn't know De Beers developed something like that. Amazing. My net access now is crap so can't download the PDF. Is it diamond dust or something larger mixed with the steel?


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#6 sunday

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 0327 AM

Diamond armor. Talk of pimping your tank with bling! :D


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#7 DougRichards

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 0705 AM

Azbantium

 

Even a fist can shatter it, given 2 billion years...

 

'Heaven Sent'...


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#8 DougRichards

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 0710 AM

“In Lower Pomerania is the Diamond Mountain, which is two miles and a half high, two miles and a half wide, and two miles and a half in depth; every hundred years a little bird comes and sharpens its beak on it, and when the whole mountain is worn away by this, then the first second of eternity will be over.”


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#9 lemd

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 1242 PM

Ceramic is used for its high hardness to achieve specific effects. It doesn't absorb significant energy, but it does deform penetrators, sometimes extremely (qv interface defeat). None of the ceramics typically used in armor are particularly tough. De Beers developed Syndie armor, which is synthetic diamonds cast in steel and has a fantastic mass and thickness efficiency.

ceramics.2010-10-23.png

 

 

The price quoted above is extremely high, highly pure material or balistic grade or what?

 

Aluminum oxide, isn't it Al2O3? 60$/lb?


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#10 TTK Ciar

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 1304 PM

The prices are for large sintered shapes, and are some years old so might need updating. Unsinstered granules are of course orders of magnitude cheaper, which is part of the appeal of cermets and PCCs.
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#11 Guest_Jason L_*

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 2038 PM

Bulk prices of powder for manufacturing are cheap. It's the hot pressing and baking that costs a fortune.


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#12 Guest_Jason L_*

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 2038 PM

The prices are for large sintered shapes, and are some years old so might need updating. Unsinstered granules are of course orders of magnitude cheaper, which is part of the appeal of cermets and PCCs.

 

Cermets suck.


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#13 toysoldier

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 2214 PM

Do tell us more.
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#14 TTK Ciar

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 0221 AM

Syndie is a CERMET with a thickness efficiency of 2.2 vs LRP, and mass efficiency of 4.0. That doesn't seem so bad.
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#15 dejawolf

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 0956 AM

 

Ceramic is used for its high hardness to achieve specific effects. It doesn't absorb significant energy, but it does deform penetrators, sometimes extremely (qv interface defeat). None of the ceramics typically used in armor are particularly tough. De Beers developed Syndie armor, which is synthetic diamonds cast in steel and has a fantastic mass and thickness efficiency.

ceramics.2010-10-23.png

 

 

The price quoted above is extremely high, highly pure material or balistic grade or what?

 

Aluminum oxide, isn't it Al2O3? 60$/lb?

 

 

yes, it's Al2O3. the same stuff rubies and sapphires are made of.


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#16 TTK Ciar

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 2251 PM

A sampling of sintered aluminum oxide rods from alibaba shows they've come down in price, to about $25/lb - $40/lb for the high purity stuff and about $4/lb - $5/lb for low purity. Unsintered granules appear to have come up slightly, to about $1.50/lb (used to be less than $1/lb).
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#17 lemd

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 0620 AM

What made sintered alumina so costly? Energy consumption? Low volume demand on market?

 

Aluminum consumes large energy because it is an active element, but bulk price is low.

 

If hardness is desired, isnt't it glass (sillica) quite hard, cheap, and easy to form to any shape?


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#18 lemd

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 0627 AM

Does anyone have price of other ballistic material for comparision, i.e RHA, HHS,...?


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#19 TTK Ciar

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 0624 AM

What made sintered alumina so costly? Energy consumption? Low volume demand on market?


Specialized equipment is required to compress ceramic granules under very high pressure while they are heated and/or subjected to high electric current. They must be held under pressure for some time to ensure good bonding and uniform consistency. Afterwards, if the application demands zero internal defects, pieces must be inspected via X-ray or ultrasound, and flawed pieces discarded. All of these things means the production rate for manufacturing sintered solids is low. When there is high demand (such as for silicon carbide SAPI plates), a company like Ceradyne will tool up for mass production, but then other considerations can push prices up (like big fat government contracts).
 

If hardness is desired, isnt't it glass (sillica) quite hard, cheap, and easy to form to any shape?


Compared to technical ceramics, glass is soft and spongy. See the physical characteristics of impact-resistant glass on Materialweb: http://matweb.com/se...61febe328a9efde

That has a compressive strength of only 50000 psi, six to thirteen times weaker than the technical ceramics in the table previously posted. It also has a much lower fracture toughness. No Vickers Hardness rating for that product, but another glass -- http://matweb.com/se...0f41f09c083199c-- shows a Vickers of only 205, again several times lower than technical ceramics.

Sometimes bulletproof glass windows will incorporate a tempered glass layer between polycarbonate layers, because even though its mass efficiency is lower than polycarbonate it has a higher thickness efficiency and there are often practical limits on how thick a window may be. Also, even though glass isn't particularly hard, it is much harder than polycarbonate, so will deform a bullet's nose some, rendering it less capable of penetrating the thick polycarbonate backing layer. The front layer will be thin, providing only containment for the glass, keeping it trapped in front of the bullet rather than ejecting. qv: http://ciar.org/ttk/...19/TB491431.pdf

Does anyone have price of other ballistic material for comparision, i.e RHA, HHS,...?


Fully MIL-A-12560 compliant steel plate tends to be a bit pricey for purely artificial reasons, but laboratories will often use SAE 4340 steel hardened to 350 BHN as an inexpensive substitute, and it is comparable enough to the steels used for armor in other countries. Hardened 4340 in thick plates tends to run about $0.75 to $0.85 per pound (USD).
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