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Multirole Combat Ship 180


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#41 BansheeOne

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 0640 AM

An international invite to tender is supposed to come forth within the next few weeks, and the decision for a winning design to be made 100 weeks thereafter. It has been pointed out that this will be about the date of the next national elections and there will be an inevitable delay while the new Bundestag constitutes and starts parliamentary deliberations on acquisition, but apparently that's already as fast as the MoD feels safe with.

 

Quite unsurprisingly, the original ambitious timetable cannot be upheld, as the MoD notified parliament this week that a ready-to-sign contract will emerge only after the elections late next year, half a year later than envisioned, because "we need to discuss more with industry". Quite surprisingly, it was reported yesterday that the CDU/CSU-SPD coalition had agreed to procure five additional corvettes, with the first two to be commissioned in 2019 already, as happily announced by two Bundestag members including Johannes Kahrs, spokesman of the SPD in the budget committee and MP for Lürssen Bremen.

 

That could really work only if they start cutting the steel about right now, and would obviously exclude a lengthy process of inviting to tender, designing etc., which means the additional vessels could really be only more K 130; of course original plans called for 15, eventually reduced to the five now in service. With the Baltic returning more to the focus vis-a-vis Russia, the rationale to supplant the old missile FACs (the last four of which are to be decommissioned next month) makes more sense again of course.

 

Only recently there was a suggestion for a "Korvette 132" (following the original K 131 designation for MKS 180) was made by a naval officer in "Wehrtechnik", but as noted, to get new vessels so fast would mean that at best minor modifications could be made to the K 130 design which at least seems to work now after lengthy teething problems. But I'll believe that when I see the hulls.


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#42 TonyE

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 0728 AM

 


........happily announced by two Bundestag members including Johannes Kahrs, spokesman of the SPD in the budget committee and MP for Lürssen Bremen.

 

:D


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#43 lucklucky

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 1524 PM

Not a good idea to not have any successor to existing FACs in same class.


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#44 Colin

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 1607 PM

The UK is pushing to have the Type 26 entered into Canada's CSC competition  http://ottawacitizen...-frigate-design


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#45 BansheeOne

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 0501 AM

Quite surprisingly, it was reported yesterday that the CDU/CSU-SPD coalition had agreed to procure five additional corvettes, with the first two to be commissioned in 2019 already, as happily announced by two Bundestag members including Johannes Kahrs, spokesman of the SPD in the budget committee and MP for Lürssen Bremen.

 

The additional K 130s actually found their way into the 2017 budget authorized by the Bundestag this week. Though my stance remains that I'll believe they're coming when I see the hulls.

 

Overall, the defense budget increased from 34.3 to 37 billion Euro (plus eight percent), including 1.5 billion for the corvettes. That's certainly the biggest raise within the last decade; from 2006 to 2009 there were steps of less than a billion each from 27.9 to 31.2, hovering below 32 until 2013, then around 33 until 2015. Of course with a projected 2017 GDP of ca. 3,125 billion, the share remains just below 1.2 percent; though Chancellor Merkel notably stated in the general policy debate on Wednesday that the NATO aim of two percent could "not remain just on paper in the medium and long view" in the face of new threats - which is unusual since the line so far has been "just a share of the GDP is not a measure of anything, with an ever-growing economy this would mean to spend more money than we can sensibly use, and also it would make others uneasy if Germany became the biggest military spender in Europe by far".

 

The day before, Merkel had already stated before the CDU's Economic Council that Germany's 1.2 and the American 3.4 percent would need to "converge". Of course so far the plan has merely been for the defense budget to rise to 39.2 billion by 2020, approaching 1.3 percent. But then that plan called for 36.6 billion in 2017, which was exceeded considerably in the actual budget already. Still, Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen called for a total of 130 billion in additional investments until 2030 to overcome material shortcomings earlier this year; this would mean an additional ten billion each year, a sum equaling just the additional five-year total in the 2020 plans, so a considerable delta remains. If we're talking a two-percent GDP share in 2030, it could actually be filled, though that's politically rather ambitious, and naturally there's a lot of vaguaries in plans stretching over four electoral terms.


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#46 Panzermann

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 0829 AM

It would help if BMVg wasn't sinking money in dead ends like Eurohawk, which was doomed from the beginning. <_<


ordering five more K130, though I guess in modified form accounting for lessons learned, is the quickest move possible. Where do they expect the crew to come from?

Well norway wants to part with its skjold boats, so the Marine could stand up the fast boat squadron on the isle of Rügen again. But they won't.



What is up with the thread titeling MKS180? Are they still dragging their feet about what they buy?
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#47 BansheeOne

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 0446 AM

Dutch Damen Shipyards have won the competition for the MKS 180 design (barring complaints by competitor German Naval Yards). There are various hopeful speculations, like that the ships will actually be built at Blohm & Voss, the Netherlands will buy German boats as their next submarines in return, etc.
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#48 Rick

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 0550 AM

What do the continental European navies see as their threat? Other than their armies  ;)


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#49 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 0625 AM

Rick, you have been keeping abreast of recent events?

 


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#50 Colin

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Posted 05 February 2020 - 0139 AM

I really hope those radars that were turning near the crew were not also transmitting.


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#51 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 0443 AM

Russian Sailor Stronk!


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#52 Chris Werb

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Posted 08 February 2020 - 0831 AM

Realistically, other than the Kilos and Lada, the only threat the Russian Baltic fleet poses is the ability to get off a salvo of cruise missiles before it's sunk at its moorings.


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#53 lastdingo

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Posted 08 February 2020 - 0902 AM

Realistically, other than the Kilos and Lada, the only threat the Russian Baltic fleet poses is the ability to get off a salvo of cruise missiles before it's sunk at its moorings.

That applies to the entire Russian surface fleet in a conflict with NATO or PRC. The cruise missile capability is now redundant, of course.

The Russian SSK are obsolete and very likely in a poor technical condition by now. AIP projects stalled.

Few of their SSN are capable against a surface force with dedicated ASW units.

Their SSBN are unusable (and should not even be targeted!).

 

The threat of the Russian navy to NATO is on the level of auxiliary cruiser; a few SSN could slip through and sink some cargo ships.

 

There's little reason for most NATO powers to spend much (or at all) on a navy. I'm in favour of equipping land-based air power for anti-ship strike on large scale and in favour of establishing a sanitized corridor from Copenhagen/Oslo to Gibraltar. The latter could be done with boats, mines, UUVs, flying drones (mostly for surface ship ID by imagery) and helicopters. The Americans, French and British may see a need for substantial surface fleets - they should be able to escort a few transatlantic priority convoys.

 

 

MKS 180 is a waste of money, as is the entire sea-going German navy.


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