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Wot Part Deux

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#3981 Skywalkre

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 2007 PM

Being stunned is not the end of it all, you suffer something like 25% to effectiveness, but...

Right.  At least on SB you were never actually stunned (as in unable to do anything) but given the decrease in effectiveness that might as well have been the case.  Back on SB it was cake to hit heavies (and from reading comments about what was pushed to live it sounds like that's still the case).  Most heavies have terrible stats (mobility and gun) to begin with so the stun basically makes you unable to do anything til it wears off.  Heaven forbid the enemy arty focus you and have a brain and your entire game is in this stunned state til you eventually die from constant arty fire and enemy ground fire.

 

Not.  Fun.



#3982 Mistral

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 0914 AM

I find the changes actually makes arty playable for more people and is actually an improvement

 

Oh it sure is more fun to be an arty player, I am not  sure its for the good of the game as a whole though.



#3983 Skywalkre

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 2217 PM

NnoGhN1.gif

 

Was bored while waiting at the barber and decided to check in on the WoT subreddit for the first time in months only to see these...

 

https://www.reddit.c.../fochgate_tldr/

https://www.reddit.c...up_some_things/

 

Almost all front page posts on the subreddit are drama related (here's the vid that started it all).  If the threats from WG are true in any form (be it one employee going off the reservation or actually company sanctioned) that's definitely not cool.  Similar stuff from Gaijin is why I swore off any product from them.  Apparently other streamers (I have no idea how big they are and it's mob rule on the subreddit so folks could be exaggerating their influence) are spreading the word in the streamersphere.  Will be interesting to see if this dies off or grows into a raging inferno.  (I don't have preferences or anything about what I'm hoping for...  ;)  )

 

Edit: Was talking to a gaming friend who has never played or followed WoT.  He had already heard about this.  Some of these streamers picking up the story and posting about it are apparently fairly big names in the online gaming community.

 

Also, there appears to be no doubt the threat was made.  The employee in question made a really bad apology and owned up to making them.

 

Off to get some popcorn!  :D


Edited by Skywalkre, 20 May 2017 - 1613 PM.


#3984 Skywalkre

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 1628 PM

This keeps getting better and better!  :lol:

 

WG, instead of apologizing, has supposedly doubled down.  I say supposedly because this article claims to have a statement on the matter from WG:

 

 

SirFoch’s latest claim that we’re somehow prohibiting him from making future videos involving our games is completely false – he’s more than welcome to make more Wargaming-related videos. If those videos continue to include hate speech and homophobic slurs, we’ll take the necessary and appropriate action.

 

The video Foch published and took down didn't include any hate speech or homophobic slurs... so where are they getting that from?  I can't attest to what we may have said in previous videos, I don't follow him, but the one in question (you can see it here) that started all of this doesn't have either.  Saying the f-bomb a few times and telling someone to f off doesn't constitute hate speech or homophobic slurs (nor does calling something AIDs like he calls the gun on the tank once).  How many special snowflakes are playing or developing this game that that vid was somehow offensive?  :blink:  (It's also painful to see so many folks throw the word slander around.  That didn't happen in the video, either, people.  Ugh...)

 

So, to steal a gif that was posted on the WoT subreddit, this is me right now with everything going on.

 

eeufm0udajyy.gif


Edited by Skywalkre, 20 May 2017 - 1630 PM.


#3985 FlyingCanOpener

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 1749 PM

 How many special snowflakes are playing or developing this game that that vid was somehow offensive?  :blink:

 

Half of the elite NA playerbase are a bunch of 16 year old furries or hentai freaks. That's who. ;)



#3986 Harold Jones

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 1809 PM

Doesn't something like this happen every couple of months or so?  Seems like there's a lot of drama inherent in the whole game streaming thing.



#3987 Skywalkre

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 2018 PM

Doesn't something like this happen every couple of months or so?  Seems like there's a lot of drama inherent in the whole game streaming thing.

I can't speak for how often it happens but the reaction to it has certainly shown how sensitive the community is (even more online personas, like TotalBiscuit, have jumped in on it since yesterday).

 

It's understandable, too.  The whole copyright thing is as well implemented as arty is in WoT.  It favors the big guys and is easily abused by them (which was the threat by WG... it wasn't legit and per the post up above appear to be lying out of their ass to justify it). 

 

Shitbags can abuse it as well.  There was a big uproar a year or two ago when said scum were stealing original content from smallish YT channels, uploading and monetizing it on their own, filing a copyright claim against the original creator, and getting away with it.  :blink:  Folks who weren't big didn't have the resources to fight it and for folks where it was something for fun on the sides it wasn't worth the time and effort to try and fight it. 

 

YT's system is highly automated and it takes forever to rectify false claims regardless of where they come from.  Per one of the vids I've watched covering this whole issue if WG were to have actually gone through with it it would have effectively killed Foch's YT channel.  It's understandable that this is a big deal to them (and why some of these personalities are jumping in without necessarily doing their due diligence on what exactly happened... not that that would change their stance once they do).



#3988 FlyingCanOpener

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 1305 PM

Doesn't something like this happen every couple of months or so?  Seems like there's a lot of drama inherent in the whole game streaming thing.

 

There is, essentially because successful streaming requires, to an extent, a pretty high level of narcissism. Platooning with folks like Trobs when he was trying to get his channel up and running was nauseating because in order to get viewers you pander to the audience, while at the same time the audience becomes hopeless fanbois. Want to platoon with them and not be a viewer? You'd better be a sycophant and not show them up in a game.

 

The whole mess gets really toxic when there's real (and I don't mean a couple of bucks either) involved. I was reading an issue of Game Informer a couple of months back about what it takes to be a professional gamer, and the storied relayed about players and sponsors getting really butthurt over online comments was simultaneously amusing and pitiful, because you have players who are immature and coarse suddenly having to deal with the Real World™, and they quickly find out that screaming profanity isn't really a worthwhile negotiating tactic.



#3989 Colin

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 1650 PM

I barely read Reddit or watch YT vids on the games I play, ignorance is bliss for the most part, once I become unhappy I stop paying, simple math.



#3990 DB

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 1420 PM

Today's Mingles With Jingles has an extended discussion of the whole thing up to but not including the WG NA statement about homophobic slurs.

 

As much as it pains me, if WG don't stick by the statement paid by the head of WG EU community relations (as discussed in the Jingles video), then I'm going to put them down and go to play something else instead.

 

And just after I found tuccy in a WoWS game :(



#3991 Markus Becker

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 1651 PM

Doesn't something like this happen every couple of months or so?  Seems like there's a lot of drama inherent in the whole game streaming thing.


Yes and no. There has been controversy but this copyright strike thing seems to be the equivalent of dropping a thermonuclear bomb.



Today's Mingles With Jingles has an extended discussion of the whole thing up to but not including the WG NA statement about homophobic slurs.
 
As much as it pains me, if WG don't stick by the statement paid by the head of WG EU community relations (as discussed in the Jingles video), then I'm going to put them down and go to play something else instead.
 
And just after I found tuccy in a WoWS game :(


Looks like WG managed to do a Baron von Münchhausen and pull themselves out of the mess.

Lesson for the future: Occasionally the best way to deal with negativity is to ignore it. Because if you don't you just attract attention to a matter most people would have otherwise overlooked. Something I myself forget from time to time.

#3992 Skywalkre

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 0522 AM


Today's Mingles With Jingles has an extended discussion of the whole thing up to but not including the WG NA statement about homophobic slurs.
 
As much as it pains me, if WG don't stick by the statement paid by the head of WG EU community relations (as discussed in the Jingles video), then I'm going to put them down and go to play something else instead.
 
And just after I found tuccy in a WoWS game :(


Looks like WG managed to do a Baron von Münchhausen and pull themselves out of the mess.
 

Except they didn't...

 

 

Because of that moronic statement that we now learned came out of WG NA (wtf...?) Jingles (and some other big names in WoT) have removed themselves from the Community Contributor program and are going to (eventually... he still has some vids in the pipeline) move away from WG content.

 

giphy.gif

 

My hat off to Jingles and the others.  There are some folks with principle still left out there after all.


Edited by Skywalkre, 23 May 2017 - 0529 AM.


#3993 Markus Becker

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 0620 AM

This takes the "left hand, right hand" to a whole new level. :( Now it's up to the overall HQ to step in and try to salvage this tankwreck.

#3994 Harold Jones

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 1111 AM

Seems like they finally got everybody on the same page.  https://thearmoredpa...rfoch-incident/

 

Hello all, we wanted to share an update with you on the recent incident with SirFoch

“We at Wargaming have further reviewed the incident of last Friday involving SirFoch and his “Chrysler K GF rant” video, and we believe we could have handled the situation better. We strongly support our players’, including our Community Contributors’, right to speak critically about us and our games. At the same time, in the case of our Community Contributors, we ask that negative comments be made in a reasonably respectful, constructive manner, and SirFoch’s video didn’t do that. In turn, we acted too quickly when we threatened to have YouTube remove SirFoch’s video through a copyright infringement complaint. We have apologized to SirFoch for making that threat, and we are continuing our conversation with him on next steps.

We’re committed to doing a better job on this front. We’re going to improve the way we communicate with our Community Contributors, and as part of that effort we will work with them on more detailed, specific guidelines for our Community Contributors to help ensure incidents like this don’t happen again. We’ll also be implementing a more thorough internal review process of our own potential actions which will be used in any future case where we have concerns that a Community Contributor has crossed the line in the language they use.

We love our players and our contributors – even the ones who don’t always love us – and we are committed to using this case to grow and improve.”



#3995 Skywalkre

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 1238 PM

That's an older apology from this weekend.  After Jingles and the others said they were stepping away they came out with yet another one where finally it seems everyone may actually have talked with one another and come out with a coherent message.  It's even up on the front page of their website.

 

https://worldoftanks...foch-statement/

 

 

Statement on SirFoch Incident an hour ago
 
...

 

Dear Commanders,

 

We have further reviewed the incident of last Friday involving SirFoch and his “Chrysler K GF rant” video, and know we could have handled the situation a lot better. We strongly support our players’, including our Community Contributors’, right to speak critically about us and our games. We acted too quickly and over the line when we threatened to have YouTube remove SirFoch’s video through a copyright infringement complaint and we are apologizing for that.

 

We’re committed to doing a better job on this front. We’re going to improve the way we communicate with our Community and our Community Contributors, and as part of that effort we will work with them on more detailed, specific guidelines to help ensure incidents like this don’t happen again.

 

Our official position is that Wargaming will not take copyright action against opinions based on our publicly released content.

 

Over the weekend we released a statement to some media outlets regarding the content of SirFoch’s video that inferred that SirFoch’s videos contained hate speech and homophobia. While we would obviously not want such content to be associated with any of our games – this video clearly did not. We apologize for this statement, and we don't stand behind those claims.

 

We love our players and our contributors – and we appreciate their honesty and commitment – we are committed to using this incident to grow and improve.

There are four names 'signed' at the bottom of it (for some reason they're not copying correctly) - Thayne Lyman (Product Director World of Tanks), Markus Schill (General Manager Europe), Jay Cohen (General Manager North America), Anton Pankov (World of Tanks Publishing Director)

 

So... it only took apology number 3 or 4 (I've lost track) and a bunch of high profile streamers/CCers walking away for them to finally get it right.  How bloody pathetic, WG. :glare:

 

I'm curious what mouthbreather in the NA office put out that statement to the press and these streamers and even more curious if he or she still has a job (rooting for kicked to the curb).

 

Interestingly enough some good, as far as health of the game, may come out of this.  The underlying issue which started all of this (because snowflakes are too distracted by the word 'fuck' to notice what was actually being said in Foch's video) is the shift of WoT to a P2W joke with ever increasingly powerful tier 8 premiums.  In the forum thread (EU) for the above announcement the following was stated by WG:

 

 

We will provide answers regarding the questions surrounding World of Tanks becoming P2W and the Premium T8 situation during the Grand Finals. We will make sure that the communication is properly distributed and we're working on an open Q&A for those who won't be joining the Grand Finals.

 

Let's see what comes of this.


Edited by Skywalkre, 23 May 2017 - 1239 PM.


#3996 Markus Becker

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 1307 PM

So... it only took apology number 3 or 4 (I've lost track) and a bunch of high profile streamers/CCers walking away for them to finally get it right.  How bloody pathetic, WG.  :glare:

 

Now you are being a bit harsh. WG EU had just extinguished the firestorm they had started when they got fucked over by WG NA. Speaking off, I bet they have a job opening in NA. 



#3997 DB

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 1408 PM

You know, this is looking like a classic case of the shitstorm brewing too quickly for the company to manage - if you will, the reactions got inside their decision loop and someone in NA got it very, very wrong.

 

Any person who thinks that saying a tank is like AIDS is "homophobic" is a very special sort of snowflake, or is desperately looking for an excuse for their poor behaviour. I hate people like that - they're a plague on the community. Erm.



#3998 Markus Becker

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 1502 PM

What puzzles me is why NA got involved in the first place. The first video on YT about this made me understand that this was very serious but it didn’t involve NA at all. Given the severity of the situation in EU one would have expected them to grab a camo net and head for the next bush, praying they don’t get spotted before it is all over. 

 

 

BTW, I expected the video to be harsher. He says the F-word 14 times but by far most of the time he’s ranting about that tank.  



#3999 Skywalkre

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 1701 PM

What puzzles me is why NA got involved in the first place. The first video on YT about this made me understand that this was very serious but it didn’t involve NA at all. Given the severity of the situation in EU one would have expected them to grab a camo net and head for the next bush, praying they don’t get spotted before it is all over. .  

The theory is that the website and some of these streamers were based out of NA an simply reached out to their local NA office thinking WG was a company that actually had their shit together. 

 

As for being too harsh I don't see it.  It's been three years since I lasted played and WG had issues back then about different regions sending completely different messages about the same issue.  Jingles touched on this as well in his video about how this is nothing new (and why he had reason to be afraid of NA regardless of what EU said).  So we're left with the EU office making claims they should have known they couldn't back up and/or the mouthbreather at NA that reignited this conflagration went way past their pay grade when they released that statement.  Regardless WG is still an organization that needs to clean up their act.  This entire controversy is on them, period.

 

 

BTW, I expected the video to be harsher. He says the F-word 14 times but by far most of the time he’s ranting about that tank.  

Exactly.  The reaction was bizarre and overblown.  As many commenters pointed out has WG not played their own game recently*?  You see worse in chat every game.

 

*My favorite bit since the homophobic comment came out was folks suggesting Foch and others push back at WG on that one.  It'd be fun to see WG's reaction to having a 'gay pride' flag to put on tanks and how well that, and the attack on supposed homophobic comments, would go over in the RU market.  You'll notice in the link I posted above it was just NA and EU heads signing the (final?) apology.  :glare:


Edited by Skywalkre, 23 May 2017 - 1712 PM.


#4000 bojan

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 1722 PM

There is a well known and quite good clan on RU server that has rainbow flag as clan logo. Nothing happened.





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