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#41 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 02 September 2017 - 1201 PM

Just thought I would flag up, they have just release an update that makes the boat much easier to control, basically its just like RSR and you can select a course via a point selection, type in a depth, or you can still drive it manually as before in emergencies. Much neater all round. The addition of voices of crewmen acknowledging your command also helps.

 

Still fiendishly difficult though. Its pretty much suicide to fire Harpoon at minimum range. Any range actually. :D


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#42 Der Zeitgeist

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 0335 AM

Awesome, I'm really glad how that game turns out. I'll probably try the campaign again shortly.


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#43 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 0446 AM

Its kind of nice how moddable it is. For example, I found one field that has the minimum ambient level of sound in the region. So I found the DTIC, put in an approximation of the ambient as found in the norwegian sea, et voila, rather harder to hold contacts at further range, and helos have to work hard to get you.

 

Harpoon attacks are just like Red Storm Rising, IE, helicopter bait. :(


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#44 Skywalkre

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 1026 AM

So... what's the latest on this game?  While in Steam this morning I was looking over their 'Best of...' lists from 2017 and this was one of the top new sellers over the summer.  Looking at the game page for it it seems it's still getting frequent updates.  The recommendation from several months ago was that it was good but if you're on the fence wait since the patches were adding so much.  Have they worked out all the little bugs/nuisances finally?


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#45 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 1034 AM

I gave up on it. I approached one of the Devs on Subsim with the above documents I found and pointed out that I thought the Sonar Systems on Soviet vessels were too effective. And their attitude basically can be summed up by the attitiude 'Well we have far better sources of information than that, and anyway, if we made it more accurate it wouldnt be a fun game'. Which is a stunning contradiction in terms in my humble opinion.

 

Basically, I want a sim, not a game. And its achievable with the game modded to reflect what was known of Soviet Sonar systems. They arent interested, so frankly they can stick it. Looks like im back to Silent Hunter 3. :)


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#46 BansheeOne

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 1139 AM

Definitely still at an early point of evolution. Latest additions were civilian/neutral ships which will show up in about every mission along with big friendly whales, so you have more work identifying targets and to use a little more care to not blow them up with a stray torpedo. Not sure if that would result in penalties; I recent killed a Partizan-class transport that was shown as hostile red rather than neutral green around an Oscar, but it wasn't listed in the AAR, so at best probably was a legitimate target but not part of the mission. It's probably in preparation for playing the Soviet side, where allied convoys would be a natural target; still lacking Western surface combattants as escorts though.

 

Torpedos will home on, but not hit whales, so they're kind of a biological MOSS. I'm packing even more of the latter now since I note that enemy counterattacks have become much more aggressive; Soviet skippers will fire quicker and more torpedos, and steer them, too. Another change is the addition of seaweed in littoral waters which actually seems to have an effect on sonar; you can hide in it, but will also lose contacts yourself if getting close to the bottom.

 

It remains a successor to the old "Red Storm Rising", a very playable mix of simulation, campaign and action while not emphasizing any of those factors too much. In particular, staying general on the simulation aspect should allow further expansion to more units and parties fairly easily. I think if they get around to making the Soviet side playable (there are already mods for that of course) and introduce British and French subs as suggested, too, it will increase the fun a lot, and exponentially if they manage the intended multiplayer mode. There is also word of a present-day Pacific campaign vs. China.

 

If I was to phrase impertinent wishes, I would like diesel boats to become playable, too, which would realistically mean to include fuel and air as additional ressources to keep in mind, and possibly snorkeling. There are already Soviet diesels of course, but in addition to British Oberons and French Daphnes and Agostas you could then also have Dutch Dolfijns and Zwaardvis plus German, Danish and Norwegian Type 205/206/207s. I really want to creep around the shallows of the Baltic, where nukes have no business.

 

Of course at that point there would be really no reason to not make surface units playable, too, with onboard aircraft guided around by waypoints like torpedos are now ... so you're crossing into "Strike Fleet" territory there, another 80s classic. At the extreme, I could see Atlantic and Pacific campaigns each in 1968, 1984 and present day, both single- and multiplayer-capable with submarine and surface units on either side. So lots of potential, but it would supposedly take lots of time to get there, too.


Edited by BansheeOne, 10 January 2018 - 1140 AM.

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#47 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 1153 AM

Its relatively easy to mod the hell out of it. You can put in real life data no problem at all. I found a DTIC report illustrating the noise background of the barents sea, which makes it harder to pick up Soviet boats. Real life noise output of a Soviet boat, yep thats possible too. You can put in real life weapons data, which makes using the Mk37 against a November a real nightmare. All this is easy stuff to do (and in fact I managed it with little trouble) and they wont do it, because they want it to be a 'game'.

 

The real joy of Red Storm Rising is that it was yes, a game. But like everything Microprose did, they tried to make it accurate. That was a sim in sheeps clothing.  This is arguably the other way around.

 

 

I wish I could be more optimistic about the future of this, but you only have to look in the game stats. They show sonar figures as very similar to comparable US boats. Its absurd.


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 10 January 2018 - 1200 PM.

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#48 Skywalkre

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 1330 PM

So in short it sounds like a good game (that's being actively supported) but a bad sim.

 

Stuart, are there folks out there putting together these more realistic stats into something anyone can download as a mod?  Or do you have to do this yourself?


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#49 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 0308 AM

I was working on a mod pack myself, and I was modding one stock campaign to be set in 1973, which was an interesting year in which you could use ASTOR (still hadnt figured out how to mod that), early mk48, Mk37 and still had Mk16s. I deleted it, cant see much point in adding to something they cant take seriously themselves. There was also the added problem that you had to mod the modpack after every patch, because they still havent got a finished version yet.

 

Worth checking subsim. Im sure someone will pipe up with some extensive mods like they did with the SHIII modpacks.


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#50 RETAC21

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 1427 PM

This stream gives you an idea on how it works: 


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#51 BansheeOne

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 1301 PM

From: CDR Banshee One, USS Scamp SSN-588

 

To: COMSUBLANT

 

AFTER ACTION REPORT

 

Sunk off Iceland today: Three Whiskey-class SSK, two whales (one of which by enemy torpedo), one fishing trawler.

 

*facepalm*


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#52 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 1331 PM

'The whale was asking for it sir! He had this mean, nasty stare like....

 

:D


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#53 BansheeOne

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 0317 AM

Six hundred million screaming chinamen!


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#54 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 0326 AM

Is it any good? Im idly wondering if I ought to dust it off and pick my mod up again.


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#55 BansheeOne

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 0353 AM

Only played three missions so far (then my Seawolf which had already lost its towed array in repelling an amphibious landing at Subic Bay was blown out of the water by a wolfpack of Chinese subs escorting a Russian freighter with arms deliveries). It's set in 2000 after the DPP in Taiwan has declared independence, the UK is holding off on returning HK to China due to the ensueing tensions (which seems odd given that it should have been handed over three years before), and a cash-strapped Russia is selling the Chinese anything that goes. Besides the Seawolf, you also get various improved flights of LAs, based at Guam.

 

My first impression is that passive detection of subs has become a lot harder, certainly in the shallow waters that make up most of the South China Sea; which is unsurprising given that the diesel-to-nuke ratio is a lot higher and maybe except some early Chinese models, every type is a Kilo or better. I never got a fix on most before they launched on me. Chinese torpedos seem short-ranged though, and the newer US boats are also a lot better, of course; I think the Seawolf cavitates only at double the speed at any given depth, and obviously has a lavish weapons suite which allows you to carry all types, and launch them, simultaneously in sufficient numbers. Unloading a half-dozen torpedos on a Chinese landing force, all steered, plus being able to expend MOSSes pre-emptively to lead aircraft astray, is a whole new experience.


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#56 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 0401 AM

Cheers. I might give it punt then, if I can manage to put my Harrier down anyway.


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#57 Skywalkre

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 0520 AM

The vid on the Steam page makes it look like a sizable update considering it's free.  That's a rare thing in gaming these days.


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#58 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 0541 AM

Yeah, I was expecting it to be DLC. Ill admit that is pretty damn good of them.

 

Wonder how well it would work in Oculus Rift?


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#59 Captain Hurricane

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 2248 PM

 

Came back to CW a few days ago after several months hiatus and downloaded the South China Sea campaign....its really good, and very generous of Killerfish to make it free.

 

As Banshee One observed there is a LOT of shallow water (less than 300ft depth) around and that can be very tricky to operate in with the big boys like the Seawolf if you are detected.

 

Be interesting to use the "third party" mod with other nations subs (once its updated to 1.15) and go for a smaller diesel or AIP powered boat for shallow water missions.

 

Edited by Captain Hurricane, 03 June 2018 - 2249 PM.

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#60 BansheeOne

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 0520 AM

I've now played a full Chinese campaign. Quickly learned to seek out deep water engagements, unlike in the 1983 North Atlantic where I liked to creep around the weeds of coastal areas with a handy Narwhal. Chinese forces then become very manageable, but modern Russian boats being delivered remain a challenge; their torpedos have become a lot better and will make you spend lots of MOSS, plus they will require multiple torpedos hits to kill themselves, like the bigger American boats. Since engagement zones are close to the mainland, you also will have to contend with MPAs a lot more, which are a real nuisance.

 

A unique aspect are the missions to sink freighters delivering arms to China; in the first I got, the specific target was colored red once I had a full resolution, but later on all merchantmen on the plot remained green, and I got reprimanded several times for not completing the mission when I quit engagements thinking the target had got away. I finally started sinking any Chinese-flagged freighter; if there is a method of picking out the ones carrying arms, I haven't found it yet. This might be a preparation for attacking allied convoys if "enemy-played" campaigns are implemented in the future.

 

Plinking groups of missile FACs is fun, though the same mission type can also be about missile cruiser groups, which is a lot harder. Note that almost any Chinese warship including landing ships will have a missile defense suite, even if it's just some 50s-era 30 mm guns, and have a good chance of shooting down your AShMs; so you can't depend anymore on sinking the escorts by torpedo first when repelling invasions, then send missiles after the troop transports who have fled in the meantime. It is helpful that the max range of torpedos (and MOSS) is now indicated as you aim them, but I haven't figured out the practical difference between the ADCAP's passive and active seeker mode.

 

The Guam base is a long way from anywhere, and with the Seawolf I would often do only the most necessary repairs and restock weapons to about 75 percent capacity before racing off again to meet time-critical mission targets. I finally got tired of playing one mission against Russian subs again and again to keep the lone Seawolf and abandoned the stricken boat to survive after otherwise meeting mission targets, and went for an LA Flight 3. Which are also very good if somewhat unwieldy (the Seawolf takes forever to turn at slow speeds), and the VLS is convenient to manage missiles seperately from the torpedo tubes, and can fire them as fast as you select the next one. It is however restricted to a firing depth of 80 feet, unlike the 200 feet of the torpedo tubes.


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