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Effect Of Resistance Groups In Europe During Ww2


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#21 rmgill

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 1757 PM

IME the more you read about SOE during the war, the more you realise just how many of their operations ended in complete disaster with the deaths of all involved.


Soldier of Orange was utterly depressing.

Other real accounts also seem very dismal in possible end. Special operations like the British Commando raid on the Vermork facility at Telemark (Operation Freshman).

Edited by rmgill, 20 September 2018 - 1800 PM.

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#22 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 0216 AM

Well the British end of that failed spectacularly. There were survivors from one Glider Crash, but the Germans murdered them all. That was when the Norwegians did it on their own, and they did a damn good job. But even then, there were links with British intelligence, and they had British weapons. It wasnt home grown, because they didnt realise quite what they had in Telemark till British intelligence told them to supply everything they knew about it. One resistance guy sent back a report saying they would be happy to comply, as long as it wasnt to help ICI. :D

 

Ryan, have you seen this? I found it rather gripping, and from accounts ive read online it seems on the face of it to be accurate enough. Not seen soldier of orange, was that Rutger Hauer?


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#23 Adam_S

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 0251 AM

PPA also worked well with the Italian Resistance. Each bringing different things to the table to achieve things that they couldn’t have done on their own.

 

I'm working my way through "Popski's" book about his exploits about the war ATM. I can heartily recommend it to anybody who hasn't read it. He may be a Belgian of Russian descent masquerading as a British officer, but he's managed to pick up the deep ancestral hatred of the French of his adopted country with considerable aplomb.


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#24 Adam_S

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 0258 AM

 

IME the more you read about SOE during the war, the more you realise just how many of their operations ended in complete disaster with the deaths of all involved.


Soldier of Orange was utterly depressing.

Other real accounts also seem very dismal in possible end. Special operations like the British Commando raid on the Vermork facility at Telemark (Operation Freshman).

 

 

Check out SOEA's exploits in Timor. They dropped in a radio operator who had the shit beaten out of him by the Japanese until he broke and started sending signals. He left out all the key words required to identify to the operators in Australia that hadn't been captured and did everything he could to signal that he'd been captured but the operators in Australia ignored it and even kept prompting him for the required key word. Meanwhile, team after team that was inserted into Timor went straight into Japanese captivity.

 

On the Telemark raids, if anybody hasn't seen Ray Mears' excellent documentary about the raid and survival skills of the commandos involved, it's on youtube somewhere and it's very good.


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#25 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 0304 AM

Yeah, seconded on the Ray Mears episode.


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#26 DougRichards

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 2322 PM

I tried to post a new topic without success, so it may go here: Allied (ie USA) corporations collaborating and profiting from the NAZI war effort, sort of a counterbalance to the resistance idea.

 

 

I came across this bit of information whilst looking at German helicopters in WW2:

 

Wiki

 

This is re the Focke-Achgelis Fa223

 

https://en.wikipedia...Achgelis_Fa_223

 

Henrich Focke had been removed by the Nazi regime from the company he had co-founded in 1936. Though the ostensible reason was that he was "politically unreliable", the RLM's decision to phase Focke-Wulf into the production program of the almost ready Bf-109 necessitated an influx of capital to fund the immediate expansion of the company's production capabilities. Focke Wulf was reorganized into a limited company (G.m.b.H.) in June 1936.[4]

After Focke-Wulf formally signed a contract to produce the Bf-109C in November 1937, the American company International Telephone & Telegraph (ITT), through its German subsidiary C. Lorenz, bought a 28 percent share of Focke-Wulf in 1938, making it the controlling interest.[5]

 

Looking at the International Telephone & Telegram ITT link lead me to this:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITT_Inc.

 

German subsidiaries in the Nazi period

On 3 August 1933 Hitler received in one of the first meetings with US businessmen Sosthenes Behn, then the CEO of ITT, and his German representative, Henry Mann.[9][11][12]Antony C. Sutton, in his book Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler, makes the claim that ITT subsidiaries made cash payments to SS leader Heinrich Himmler.

ITT, through its subsidiary C. Lorenz AG, owned 25% of Focke-Wulf, the German aircraft manufacturer, builder of some of the most successful Luftwaffe fighter aircraft.

 

In the 1960s, ITT Corporation won $27 million in compensation for damage inflicted on its share of the Focke-Wulf plant by Allied bombing during World War II.[9]

 

In addition, Sutton’s book uncovers that ITT owned shares of Signalbau AG, Dr. Erich F. Huth (Signalbau Huth), which produced for the German Wehrmacht radar equipment and transceivers in Berlin, Hanover (later Telefunken factory) and other places. While ITT - Focke-Wulf planes were bombing Allied ships, and ITT lines were passing information to German submarines, ITT direction finders were saving other ships from torpedoes.[13]

 

In 1943 ITT became the largest shareholder of Focke-Wulf Flugzeugbau GmbH for the remainder of the war with 29%. This was due to Kaffee HAG's share falling to 27% after the death in May of Kaffee HAG chief, Dr Ludwig Roselius. OMGUS documents reveal that the role of the HAG conglomerate could not be determined during WWII.[14]

 

 

Please tell me that Wiki is incorrect in this, or really, did a US Corporation really both profit from German industry in WW2 and receive compensation from the victors because they won the war?


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#27 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 0210 AM

I can think of another, Ford. The German side of the company was taken over by the Germans and made lorries for the German war effort. Ford made B24's that probably at some point bombed their own plants. And like as not postwar they probably got compensation for their plant being bombed. Win Win Win. :)

 

ITT seem to have a shitty reputation all round. The following makes interesting reading.

http://historycommon..._and_dita_beard


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#28 Ken Estes

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 0216 AM

Probably just the tip of the iceberg. Ford had the same through its Ford-Werke GmbH and General Motors its Opel holdings, the latter only sold off recently.

 

How any US firm could have received income during the war from Germany for its property in Germany remains unclear. With factories in ruins by 1945, there would have been little capital gain, rather losses to claim internationally. Ford France on the other hand did make money for Ford Motors from major German contracts, but criticism of that factor ignores the non-belligerent status of France after the Armistice. There was no doubt about the use of slave labor by many such subsidies.

 

The Wiki on Open notes the following:

 

Only the strong resistance of the American government within whose zone of occupation Rüsselsheim was located prevented the total dismantling of the entire Opel plant as reparations in Russia. GM had no say in these discussions and was not sure just what posture to take toward its subsidiary. GM's Alfred Sloan recalled:

"(Opel) had been seized by the German government soon after the war began. In 1942, our entire investment in Opel amounted to about $35 million, and under a ruling which the Treasury Department had made concerning assets in enemy hands, we were allowed to write off the investment against current taxable income. But this ruling did not end our interest in, or responsibility for, the Opel property. As the end of the war drew near, we were given to understand that we were still considered the owners of the Opel stock; and we were also given to understand that as the owners, we might be obliged to assume responsibility for the property." It was a responsibility that Sloan and his associates were not at all sure was worth the risk in the chaos of postwar Europe.

 

 

"It's only business"


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#29 R011

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 0229 AM

We hear much about US investment in Nazi Germany as if it were unique or that America in general was responsible for the German war effort.

How much money do Western companies have invested in Chinese corporations and manufacturers? Were US firms the only ones from Allied countries to have invested in Germany? What about German investment in Allied countries?
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#30 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 0242 AM

Oh it wasnt unique. Everyone was doing it. The prototype of the Me109 and the Ju87 (only the prototypes admittedly) were powered by Rolls Royce engines. And there was a disturbing Timewatch film about 20 years ago that pinpointed a LOT of British banks that had been lending money hand over fist to the Nazi regime in the lead up to WW2. Many of them were respected names that are still on the British highstreet. Then you had the Soviets enabling the development of the German armoured forces that nearly overran their country.

 

Lets face it, we all made our own Gollum here. Which would be understandable as a one off, but we seemingly seem unable to learn the lessons.


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#31 sunday

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 0450 AM

Then, there was IBM:

 

https://en.wikipedia...d_the_Holocaust


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#32 DB

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 0528 AM

Discounting resistance efforts because they weren't purely homegrown in planning, equipment and execution seems to be a bit silly to me.

 

Without a willing resistance, SOE and other organisations would have had nobody to drop the weapons to.

 

In the end, it doesn't matter who planned an op, who funded it or who provided the weapons. 


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#33 Inhapi

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 0614 AM

 

 

Please tell me that Wiki is incorrect in this, or really, did a US Corporation really both profit from German industry in WW2 and receive compensation from the victors because they won the war?

 

 

https://en.wikipedia...d_the_Holocaust


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#34 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 0622 AM

Then, there was IBM:

 

https://en.wikipedia...d_the_Holocaust

Yes indeed, I had forgotten about that one.


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#35 R011

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 0824 AM

Probably no fear the PRC's secret police are paying Microsoft, Intel, or Apple for any products or for royalties or licences.
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#36 sunday

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 1336 PM

Seems I am being ignored by our esteemed Belgian contributor.


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#37 sunday

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 1342 PM

Probably no fear the PRC's secret police are paying Microsoft, Intel, or Apple for any products or for royalties or licences.

 

In order to extend its business to China, Google agreed with Chinese specific demands. I've seen rumours of recording the phone numbers used to make searches. Then Schmidt declared this:

https://www.cnbc.com...plit-china.html


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#38 Adam_S

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 1742 PM

Oh it wasnt unique. Everyone was doing it. The prototype of the Me109 and the Ju87 (only the prototypes admittedly) were powered by Rolls Royce engines. And there was a disturbing Timewatch film about 20 years ago that pinpointed a LOT of British banks that had been lending money hand over fist to the Nazi regime in the lead up to WW2. Many of them were respected names that are still on the British highstreet. Then you had the Soviets enabling the development of the German armoured forces that nearly overran their country.

 

Lets face it, we all made our own Gollum here. Which would be understandable as a one off, but we seemingly seem unable to learn the lessons.

 

Banks have a long history of this kind of thing. In the Napoleonic wars, for example, one branch of the Rothschild family was lending money to France while another was lending to Britain.


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#39 lastdingo

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 1932 PM

Oh it wasnt unique. Everyone was doing it. The prototype of the Me109 and the Ju87 (only the prototypes admittedly) were powered by Rolls Royce engines. And there was a disturbing Timewatch film about 20 years ago that pinpointed a LOT of British banks that had been lending money hand over fist to the Nazi regime in the lead up to WW2. Many of them were respected names that are still on the British highstreet. Then you had the Soviets enabling the development of the German armoured forces that nearly overran their country.

 

Lets face it, we all made our own Gollum here. Which would be understandable as a one off, but we seemingly seem unable to learn the lessons.

 

Almost all of the world's nickel production pre-WW2 and during WW2 was in Canada (about 90%).

I am still trying to figure out whether the British Empire ever issued a Nickel embargo against Germany pre-war.


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#40 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 0206 AM

 

Oh it wasnt unique. Everyone was doing it. The prototype of the Me109 and the Ju87 (only the prototypes admittedly) were powered by Rolls Royce engines. And there was a disturbing Timewatch film about 20 years ago that pinpointed a LOT of British banks that had been lending money hand over fist to the Nazi regime in the lead up to WW2. Many of them were respected names that are still on the British highstreet. Then you had the Soviets enabling the development of the German armoured forces that nearly overran their country.

 

Lets face it, we all made our own Gollum here. Which would be understandable as a one off, but we seemingly seem unable to learn the lessons.

 

Banks have a long history of this kind of thing. In the Napoleonic wars, for example, one branch of the Rothschild family was lending money to France while another was lending to Britain.

 

 

Talk about covering your bets. :D

 

 

 

Oh it wasnt unique. Everyone was doing it. The prototype of the Me109 and the Ju87 (only the prototypes admittedly) were powered by Rolls Royce engines. And there was a disturbing Timewatch film about 20 years ago that pinpointed a LOT of British banks that had been lending money hand over fist to the Nazi regime in the lead up to WW2. Many of them were respected names that are still on the British highstreet. Then you had the Soviets enabling the development of the German armoured forces that nearly overran their country.

 

Lets face it, we all made our own Gollum here. Which would be understandable as a one off, but we seemingly seem unable to learn the lessons.

 

Almost all of the world's nickel production pre-WW2 and during WW2 was in Canada (about 90%).

I am still trying to figure out whether the British Empire ever issued a Nickel embargo against Germany pre-war.

 

Ive never heard of it, but that doesnt mean anything. I would be surprised if we did, we were still in full appeasement mode at the time.


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