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The Luftwaffe In Normandy


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#21 MiloMorai

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 0412 AM

JG26 and JG2 were responsable for defending France, Belgium, Netherland from the British air pirates.

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http://don-caldwell..../schlageter.htm


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#22 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 0650 AM

Ah Pips Priller! Is that the one he flew over the Normandy Beachhead?

 

I was interested to read last night in Julian Hollands Big Week (which is a pretty nice book in itself) that the Luftwaffe actually put units back into Normandy after the invasion, and that Heinz Nocke (I flew for the Fuhrer) had gone with them. That would have been JG 11 I think? Thought that was intersting, I wasnt aware that had happened.

 

British Air Pirates. :D


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#23 MiloMorai

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 0950 AM

Yes Priller and his wingman did that.

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The Luftwaffe attempted to > 

"Ultra" intercepts picked up a substantial portion of the move and indicated bases and arrival times for the reinforcing fighters.92 The Luftwaffe was at least able to better the poor showing of June 6. On the nights of June 7-8, the bomber and antishipping aircraft managed to launch 100 sorties, while the day forces flew 500 sorties on the 8th, 400 by single-engine fighters.93 The Luftwaffe, however, could raise the level of sorties only by stripping the Reich's fighter defenses. Losses against swarms of Allied fighters were heavy. On June 8, Luftflotte 3 lost 68 aircraft; and in the first week of operations around the beachhead, 362 aircraft. In the second week, the Germans lost another 232 aircraft. Thus, in the two weeks from June 6 to 19th, they lost nearly 75 percent of the aircraft that Luftflotte 3 had possessed on June 5.94 Moreover, by throwing their aircraft into the invasion battle, Hitler and Göring gave Eighth Air Force carté blanché to attack the synthetic fuel facilities; and almost as fast as the Germans fed aircraft into the Normandy battle, American and British fighters shot them down.

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http://www.ibiblio.o...uftwaffe-7.html


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#24 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 1218 PM

Just as a matter of interest, did any FW190 D9's serve in Normandy? I gather they were in service that summer, just wondering if any deployed.


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#25 MiloMorai

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 1441 PM

NO. The Doras didn't appear til late Sept '44 with III./JG54. Soon after that the Bf109G-10s and K-4s.


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#26 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 0258 AM

Thanks for that, another thing DCS got wrong then. Mind you, they have BF109K4's over Normandy as well, which im absolutely sure is wrong.


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#27 MiloMorai

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 0754 AM

DCS also modeled a '43 Spitfire.

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The K-4 was first delivered to operatioanal units in mid Oct, slightly before the G-10.The first losses, WNr 330305 and WNr 330319 were lost on Oct 19 1944. At least afaik DCS hasn't modeled the 1.98ata K-4 like in IL-2S.


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#28 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 0818 AM

Hmm, I guess that was the one with the Merlin 66, but having having the .303 machine guns and 2 20mms, instead of the .50 and 20mms? Im sure they would still have been in use in 44. From what I read the other day, someone claimed there was a VB in use there, which had originally been a Mk1B and flown in the Battle of Britain...

 

I have to admit, Its a truly great sim, but I would have prefered it with the Mk2 Gyro gunsight. Hitting anything with the steam gunsight  requires more skill than I have.

 


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 06 December 2018 - 0821 AM.

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#29 MiloMorai

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 0836 AM

The point is Stuart, DCS models the late war German planes and not an up to date Spitfire IX with the gyro gunsight and 150 fuel. The Vs were used as ship artillery spotting on D-Day. No doubt the statement was made by one named Kurfurst, a known Nazi lover and is well known for not exactly being truthful. He has one big hate on for the Brits and especially the Spitfire.


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#30 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 0908 AM

The point is Stuart, DCS models the late war German planes and not an up to date Spitfire IX with the gyro gunsight and 150 fuel. The Vs were used as ship artillery spotting on D-Day. No doubt the statement was made by one named Kurfurst, a known Nazi lover and is well known for not exactly being truthful. He has one big hate on for the Brits and especially the Spitfire.

 

I think I read it in one of the Osprey books actually. Id have to stretch to see what one. I certainly remember Seafires III's (which would effectively been a VB) being used in the role.

 

Yeah, I do see your point, we have a midwar spitfire and late war Luftwaffe aircraft, I dont disagree. I think TBH, the issue is more the map. If they set this over Holland in the winter of 1944, It might be a bit more acceptable. In fairness they are doing an FW190A8 and a Mosquito next, which seems a bit more on target for Normandy.

 

The fuel Is a pretty fair point actually, I believe we have discussed this before. Have you seen anything specific that suggests DCS have modelled it wrong? Im personally not having much trouble keeping up with a BF109K, but then ive a rep for burning out perfectly good Merlin engines. :)


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 06 December 2018 - 0909 AM.

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#31 MiloMorai

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 1736 PM

I have no real problem with the map location. It is a resource hog but I understand that is somewhat fixed. The Allied advance could have stagnated, for example.

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Besides the Moderation, no negativity and kissing Ninelies feet, I consider ED/DCS a scam. Not one, afaik, module has been completed to an acceptable level.

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for 25lb boost/150 fuel, http://www.wwiiaircr...grade-fuel.html


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#32 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 0307 AM

I have to admit, I have misgivings over the state of completion of some of the modules. But its a mixed bag. I wouldn't say all of them are uncompleted. The Huey and the Mi8 would appear to be, other than the occasional bug, seem to be finished. The WW2 stuff you do have a point, though as far as the spitfire it seems more occasional graphical glitches than stuff missing.

 

The moderation, I do agree with. And I dont particularly like that they have ripped out a lot of third party models, because they are said to be concerned about the provenence. Although pretty much all the modellers have concerned have demonstrated provenence coming out of their ears. Very strange.

 

I do like IL2, against them are the relative lack so far as western areas of operation, and the non clickable cockpit. I seem to be a sucker for those silly things.

 

Thanks for that, I shall have to do some flight testing and see what their results are like.


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#33 MiloMorai

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 0723 AM

Il-2 is coming out with a Bodenplatte map. This will have a time period of Oct '44 to end of March '45. Some of the a/c are already available.


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#34 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 0310 AM

Il2 is a great sim, and it has a lot of things that DCS doesnt, and for all I know, may never have. I love the dynamic campaign, and the fact you have pilots gaining skill and being scrubbed depending on how well you do. I also like the work arounds to make flight to target easier so you just get the interesting bits.

 

But I dont like non clickable cockpits. And thats very silly off me I know, but after you have manually booted up a Spitfire, anything else feels a little bit of a cheat. Thats paying full credit to the flight dynamics and everything else in the sim, which for the most part seem on part with the DCS flight models. Yes, we have bodenplatte coming and thats great, but there is still a distinct lack of western maps. In fact, there is a distinct lack of Eastern maps too, at least compared to the original IL2. And they seem as DLC hungry as DCS are at times, though ill admit you get a lot for your money.

 

There is a lot about DCS I dont like also of course. The lack of WW2 aircraft, the limited maps, the lack of dynamic campaign. And yet, strangely the flying experience feels a bit purer. Ive spent the last week refining my landing technique in the Spitfire in VR, and its driving me nuts. And at the same time, its a hoot.

 

 

I shall have to try Cliffs of Dover, seeing as they are working on a North Africa map, as well as some new aircraft (P40s and a Martlet for the most part). Im sure thats very good too.


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 08 December 2018 - 0310 AM.

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#35 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 1108 AM

BTW, there was a great thread about 100 percent octane fuel on this forum.

https://ww2aircraft....raf-pt-2.20108/

 

Hilariously they were mentioning Kurfurst and his inablity to grasp reality on that site also. :D


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#36 GregShaw

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 1148 AM

BTW, there was a great thread about 100 percent octane fuel on this forum.

https://ww2aircraft....raf-pt-2.20108/

 

Hilariously they were mentioning Kurfurst and his inablity to grasp reality on that site also. :D

Anyone who has ever followed  WW II aircraft forums knows Barbi/Kurfurst.


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#37 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 1200 PM

He was new to me, till I started browsing the (very interesting) IL2 Stalingrad forum. I was soon educated. :D


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#38 GregShaw

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 1235 PM

He was new to me, till I started browsing the (very interesting) IL2 Stalingrad forum. I was soon educated. :D

I quit even responding to him back in '03 on Butch2k's airwar forum.


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#39 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 1246 PM

You are very wise. My greatest mistake on this site is assuming I can always convince someone with a logical argument. It doesn't always follow.


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#40 sunday

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 1319 PM

You are very wise. My greatest mistake on this site is assuming I can always convince someone with a logical argument. It doesn't always follow.

 

Were the logical argument not buried beneath a gazillion words...


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