Jump to content


Photo

Little Flying Dragons Of China


  • Please log in to reply
395 replies to this topic

#341 Daan

Daan

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,087 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Where both sea and skies are grey.

Posted 17 August 2019 - 1125 AM

The US intends to sell 60 new built F-16 block 70 aircraft to Taiwan, link. According to the infographic the planes will have triple AIM-120 racks.


Edited by Daan, 17 August 2019 - 1125 AM.

  • 0

#342 Calvinb1nav

Calvinb1nav

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 549 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lexington, SC
  • Interests:military and aviation history, wargaming, shooting, travel, geography

Posted 18 August 2019 - 0826 AM

The US intends to sell 60 new built F-16 block 70 aircraft to Taiwan, link. According to the infographic the planes will have triple AIM-120 racks.

 

 

As I understand it, the Taiwanese have a pathetic stock of air-to-air missiles on hand, like low enough it makes you question their seriousness.  I guess their plan is an emergency airlift of AMRAAMs from the U.S. if the event of war.  Good luck with that...


  • 0

#343 Daan

Daan

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,087 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Where both sea and skies are grey.

Posted 18 August 2019 - 0952 AM

That had more to do with reluctant US policy, which had also repeatedly turned down Taiwan's requests to buy new fighter jets in the past. The first batch of 200 AIM-120s was stored in the US, so as to not upset the delicate arms balance between the PRC and Taiwan. Later on the missiles were transferred to Taiwan. If we have to go by the wiki on the ROCAF and its references, Taiwan should have bought a cumulative 636 AIM-120s of various versions and 960 MICAs for its Mirage 2000-5.

 

EDIT:

If I check the SIPRI database myself for the years 1990-2018 for US missile deliveries to Taiwan, I find:

2001-2003: 120 AIM-120C-5

2013-2014: 218 AIM-120C-7

Only a total of 338 AIM-120Cs delivered.

 

Other AAM transfers from the US and France.

1992: 600 AIM-7M, 900 AIM-9M

1992: 480 Magic II

1996-1998: 960 MICA

2003: 182 AIM-9M

2018: 40 AIM-9X

 

In case of Taiwan resisting a PRC assault, there is of course the question how much aircraft Taiwan will be able to get (and keep) in the air, as the PRC is likely to bombard ROCAF bases with a hail of ballistic missiles and cruise missiles.


Edited by Daan, 18 August 2019 - 1026 AM.

  • 0

#344 KV7

KV7

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,921 posts

Posted 18 August 2019 - 1034 AM

And presumably airstrikes, and at a stretch, railgun bombardment.


  • 0

#345 KV7

KV7

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,921 posts

Posted 18 August 2019 - 1036 AM

Does anyone know about Chinese capability in producing Aluminium–lithium alloys ?


  • 0

#346 Nobu

Nobu

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,783 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 18 August 2019 - 1121 AM

 

The US intends to sell 60 new built F-16 block 70 aircraft to Taiwan, link. According to the infographic the planes will have triple AIM-120 racks.

 

 

As I understand it, the Taiwanese have a pathetic stock of air-to-air missiles on hand, like low enough it makes you question their seriousness.  I guess their plan is an emergency airlift of AMRAAMs from the U.S. if the event of war.  Good luck with that...

 

 

It is a level of seriousness one might expect the Israelis to display if their surrounding enemies were in fact Hebrew-speaking Jews instead of Arab muslims.

 

If how hard the Taiwanese/Nationalist Chinese fought in their nation-defining civil war is any indication, their plan probably prioritizes an emergency airlift of the gold of the Bank of Taiwan to Switzerland.


  • 0

#347 Chris Werb

Chris Werb

    In Zod We Trust

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,251 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orkney, Scotland, UK
  • Interests:But it's got electrolytes! They're what plants crave!

Posted 19 August 2019 - 1745 PM

Kinda looks like the US LEWK program.


Google CGM-121B Seek Spinner
  • 0

#348 Josh

Josh

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 14,394 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York City

Posted 19 August 2019 - 1805 PM

 

Kinda looks like the US LEWK program.


Google CGM-121B Seek Spinner

 

 

Wow, never heard of that one. Tacit Rainbow I guess made it further, but that seems promising. I hope someone is inventing a modern equivalent. You could maybe even base it off of MALD and get more speed and range, though that is a relatively expensive platform compared to these.


  • 0

#349 JasonJ

JasonJ

    nonbiri

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 10,765 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:doko yarou
  • Interests:sleeping

Posted 20 August 2019 - 0641 AM

H-6K carring two KD-63s and two KD-20s.

h6k4alcm1.jpg

 

h6k4alcm2.jpg


  • 0

#350 Josh

Josh

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 14,394 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York City

Posted 20 August 2019 - 0739 AM

Wouldn't any Silkworm variants be rather dated? The YJ-12 (or CJ-12? I find Chinese designations hard to sort) I thought was the current AShM weapon for H-6K.


  • 0

#351 JasonJ

JasonJ

    nonbiri

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 10,765 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:doko yarou
  • Interests:sleeping

Posted 20 August 2019 - 0747 AM

You're not the only one that finds the PRC designations difficult sometimes.


  • 0

#352 KV7

KV7

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,921 posts

Posted 20 August 2019 - 0758 AM

CJ-20 / YJ-100 are the latest long range anti shipping cruise missiles, which are both variants of CJ-10, which is a development of kh-55. Silkworm variants are around in number and retained due to the powerful warhead. 


  • 0

#353 Josh

Josh

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 14,394 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York City

Posted 20 August 2019 - 1858 PM

This is the AShM I was thinking of:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YJ-12


  • 0

#354 Chris Werb

Chris Werb

    In Zod We Trust

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,251 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orkney, Scotland, UK
  • Interests:But it's got electrolytes! They're what plants crave!

Posted 23 August 2019 - 0656 AM

And presumably airstrikes, and at a stretch, railgun bombardment.

 

For this reason, any investment by Taiwan in combat aircraft, other than a token number for airspace policing, is utterly pointless.


  • 0

#355 KV7

KV7

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,921 posts

Posted 23 August 2019 - 1105 AM

 

And presumably airstrikes, and at a stretch, railgun bombardment.

 

For this reason, any investment by Taiwan in combat aircraft, other than a token number for airspace policing, is utterly pointless.

 

Agreed.


  • 0

#356 a77

a77

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 701 posts

Posted 24 August 2019 - 0004 AM

 

And presumably airstrikes, and at a stretch, railgun bombardment.

 

For this reason, any investment by Taiwan in combat aircraft, other than a token number for airspace policing, is utterly pointless.

 

 

I disagree, lets pretend that only 10% of 100+ Taiwan fighter survive and can be in a advantage postion, Thats 40 transport plane loaded with paratroopers less, or 20 hits on the transport ship carring the marin/soldier. if Taiwan make there homework they have a smale army of engineers at every runway, ready to repear it, so a second strik might be possible.


  • 0

#357 KV7

KV7

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,921 posts

Posted 24 August 2019 - 0221 AM

 

 

And presumably airstrikes, and at a stretch, railgun bombardment.

 

For this reason, any investment by Taiwan in combat aircraft, other than a token number for airspace policing, is utterly pointless.

 

 

I disagree, lets pretend that only 10% of 100+ Taiwan fighter survive and can be in a advantage postion, Thats 40 transport plane loaded with paratroopers less, or 20 hits on the transport ship carring the marin/soldier. if Taiwan make there homework they have a smale army of engineers at every runway, ready to repear it, so a second strik might be possible.

 

I think road-mobile anti-ship cruise missiles and a SAM network would be more cost effective if the objective is to deplete an invasion force.


Edited by KV7, 24 August 2019 - 0221 AM.

  • 0

#358 JasonJ

JasonJ

    nonbiri

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 10,765 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:doko yarou
  • Interests:sleeping

Posted 24 August 2019 - 0233 AM

And presumably airstrikes, and at a stretch, railgun bombardment.

 
For this reason, any investment by Taiwan in combat aircraft, other than a token number for airspace policing, is utterly pointless.
 
I disagree, lets pretend that only 10% of 100+ Taiwan fighter survive and can be in a advantage postion, Thats 40 transport plane loaded with paratroopers less, or 20 hits on the transport ship carring the marin/soldier. if Taiwan make there homework they have a smale army of engineers at every runway, ready to repear it, so a second strik might be possible.

I also favor a fighter force for Taiwan. As long as some fighters survive bombardment inside the cave/bunkers it means they will be available at a time later. If Taiwan has some outside military support and prevent the whole capture if the island, then the fighters will be able to partcipate whenever the runways are rebuilt.

The equipment for runway reconstruction after bombardment is part of doctrine in JSDF. I'd imagine the same tbinking fof Taiwan as well. Also, just like with Scandinavian countries (or at least Sweden IIRC), Taiwan practices using regular highways for landing and takeoffs of fighters. Also, ISTR part of US strategy in the Asia-Pacific is the dispersion of forces so as to spread forces out and reduce risk of taking heavy damage. So from various bases in Japan, and Guam, down to Australia, ROK, the Philippines, there are many places for US aircraft to operate from. In that way, some Taiwanese fighters could be scramblerd out of Taiwan and land at a friendly base and be ready for use at a later time of choosing.

So if thinking of stratrgic time-depth in defense, then all of Taiwan's fighters don't have to engage and be knocked out within the first couple of days.

Edited by JasonJ, 24 August 2019 - 0234 AM.

  • 0

#359 Chris Werb

Chris Werb

    In Zod We Trust

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,251 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orkney, Scotland, UK
  • Interests:But it's got electrolytes! They're what plants crave!

Posted 24 August 2019 - 1131 AM

 

 

And presumably airstrikes, and at a stretch, railgun bombardment.

 

For this reason, any investment by Taiwan in combat aircraft, other than a token number for airspace policing, is utterly pointless.

 

 

I disagree, lets pretend that only 10% of 100+ Taiwan fighter survive and can be in a advantage postion, Thats 40 transport plane loaded with paratroopers less, or 20 hits on the transport ship carring the marin/soldier. if Taiwan make there homework they have a smale army of engineers at every runway, ready to repear it, so a second strik might be possible.

 

 

It doesn't matter if they had 10000 fighters and every one survived if they can't take off. It's very hard to fix runways hit by anti runway munitions - the munitions burrow deep and create "heave" so you have to dig the hole out and repack it before you can pour replacement concrete. The Chinese could easily target runways and fixed SAM sites (Taiwan has surprisingly little ground-based air defence, although they are buying a few more PATRIOT battieries) which would leave the way open for large scale attacks with large numbers of satellite guided bombs on essentially everything of value that wasn't deeply buried. The are also very few bases - Taiwan's topography doesn't lend itself to highway basing either. It's a pretty bleak picture, honestly.


  • 0

#360 JWB

JWB

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 7,564 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:everything (almost)

Posted 24 August 2019 - 1153 AM

Logistics people, logistics!

Does the PRC have enough airlift to take Taiwan without having to employ phib ops?


  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users