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Meanwhile Back In Iraq...


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#2581 Nobu

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Posted 15 March 2020 - 1440 PM

Possession of the battlefield would be one of the classical requisites of a victory claim.


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#2582 JWB

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Posted 15 March 2020 - 1503 PM

Possession of the battlefield would be one of the classical requisites of a victory claim.

At what point in time and for how long?


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#2583 KV7

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Posted 15 March 2020 - 1634 PM

The US arguably lost in Iraq because the primary war aim (turn Iraq into a US vassal) was not achieved. This loss came quite early, as the Bremer regime was abandoned and a settlement including a plan for elections and a new constitution (which would by then obviously not produce the wanted US friendly government) were acceded to.

That this arrangement was undesirable for the US, and indeed intolerable (for despicable reasons) can be see by the effort put into destabilising the very same 'moderate Shia' alliance the US used to end the insurgency via diplomacy, via their shift to supporting Sunni chauvinist radicalism against that alliance.

But even here we need to question this motive, as it could have been achieved in 1990 by striking some deal with Hussein, where he withdrew from Kuwait and remained a US ally. In both 1990 and 2003, a primary war aim was demonstration to the world that the 'Vietnam syndrome' was finally over, and that all countries of the world which defy the US should fear destruction.

The move from 'show of force' to 'occupy and rule' can be explained by some mix of neocon hubris and venal war profit motives.


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#2584 JWB

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Posted 15 March 2020 - 2021 PM

The US arguably lost in Iraq because the primary war aim (turn Iraq into a US vassal) was not achieved. This loss came quite early, as the Bremer regime was abandoned and a settlement including a plan for elections and a new constitution (which would by then obviously not produce the wanted US friendly government) were acceded to.

That this arrangement was undesirable for the US, and indeed intolerable (for despicable reasons) can be see by the effort put into destabilising the very same 'moderate Shia' alliance the US used to end the insurgency via diplomacy, via their shift to supporting Sunni chauvinist radicalism against that alliance.

But even here we need to question this motive, as it could have been achieved in 1990 by striking some deal with Hussein, where he withdrew from Kuwait and remained a US ally. In both 1990 and 2003, a primary war aim was demonstration to the world that the 'Vietnam syndrome' was finally over, and that all countries of the world which defy the US should fear destruction.

The move from 'show of force' to 'occupy and rule' can be explained by some mix of neocon hubris and venal war profit motives.

This entire post is revisionism.

https://www.scribd.c...-S-ALL-EDITIONS


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#2585 Nobu

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Posted 17 March 2020 - 1044 AM

For battles, immediately afterward. For wars, when peace breaks out.

 

Another classical requisite of a victory claim is when historians begin to write of it.


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#2586 JWB

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Posted 17 March 2020 - 1215 PM

 For wars, when peace breaks out.

 

 

Peace happens after all of the belligerents have signed some sort of formal document.  Victory or defeat is based upon who's feet are on what soil. The second Iraq war ended in real terms in December 2008. Uneducated people will claim the USA lost because fighting is taking place in the northern parts of the country today. That form of ignorance would mean the UK lost WW1 because the BEF evacuated France in 1940.  Different wars cannot be lost at the same time. 


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#2587 Nobu

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Posted 17 March 2020 - 1458 PM

Another classical requisite of a victory claim would be which side's leaders are being hanged, and which side's are doing the hanging. Regarding Iraq, I would categorize Washington's main war aim as the removal of the Hussein regime as a threat to its regional interests. 

 

These criteria for victory point toward an American one.

 

Regarding Afghanistan, the status of Ghani's neck in the aftermath of Washington's signing of a peace treaty with the Taliban will weigh in the determination of victory there.

 

Pompeo's honest but stupid reference to the battlefield being the graveyard of empires immediately after the signing does as well.


Edited by Nobu, 17 March 2020 - 1521 PM.

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#2588 JWB

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Posted 28 March 2020 - 1131 AM

Militia attacks on Americans in Iraq are becoming more audacious. The U.S. is wrestling with how to respond.

 

Iran-backed militias are becoming more audacious in attacking U.S. personnel in Iraq, with rocket strikes against military bases occurring more frequently and, for the first time, in broad daylight.

U.S. officials say they are receiving near-daily reports of “imminent” attacks planned against U.S.-linked military or diplomatic facilities.  The fatal rocket attacks earlier this month on Camp Taji, a military base north of Baghdad, were blamed by U.S. officials on Kataib Hezbollah, one of the main Iran-backed militias. The U.S. strikes carried out in response were condemned by the Iraqi army, which called it “treacherous,” and an Iran-backed militia group threatened retaliation involving “an eye for an eye.”

 

Since then, there have been at least four rocket attacks around U.S. military and diplomatic installations, and U.S. officials say they believe it is only a matter of time before more troops are killed or wounded.  After the rocket attack on Camp Taji, Britain declined to join the U.S. retaliatory bombing raids because it did not believe the evidence provided by the Americans met the legal threshold to justify a strike against Kataib Hezbollah, according to two officials familiar with the issue. The attack was eventually claimed by the newly announced Usbat al-Thaireen, a group that U.S. officials insist is likely a front for Kataib and other Iran-backed militias.  The U.S.-led coalition has been looking to the Iraqi government to constrain militia violence, asking that individuals be arrested and prosecuted for rocket attacks.   But a senior Iraqi military official, speaking on the condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the matter, described the American request as unrealistic.

“No judge will issue an arrest warrant against a senior militia member if he wants to stay alive,” he said. “Let's be honest. If the militias want to attack the bases we can't stop them.”

https://www.washingt...db51_story.html


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#2589 Ken Estes

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Posted 28 March 2020 - 1542 PM

Good thing we are defanging the USMC then?


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#2590 Nikolas93TS

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Posted 28 March 2020 - 2018 PM

Good thing you won a war in Iraq.
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#2591 JWB

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Posted 29 March 2020 - 1103 AM

Won the war.

Lost the peace.

SMH.


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#2592 Nobu

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Posted 29 March 2020 - 2000 PM

Shinseki was right, Wolfowitz, not so much.


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#2593 glenn239

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 1406 PM

Flaring tensions over Patriot deployments in Iraq,

 

https://www.aljazeer...1105644716.html


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#2594 Colin

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 2158 PM

Canada has pulled out the majority of it's training mission, mainly due to the virus impacts


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#2595 glenn239

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Posted 06 April 2020 - 1118 AM

Canada has pulled out the majority of it's training mission, mainly due to the virus impacts

 

Saw that runner on CBC.  I think there might be another motive than Covid-19.


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#2596 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 07 April 2020 - 0340 AM

Probably preparing for the ensuing Zombie apocalypse.


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#2597 Colin

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Posted 07 April 2020 - 1239 PM

 

Canada has pulled out the majority of it's training mission, mainly due to the virus impacts

 

Saw that runner on CBC.  I think there might be another motive than Covid-19.

 

it's a good excuse 


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#2598 glenn239

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Posted 07 April 2020 - 1456 PM

 

 

Canada has pulled out the majority of it's training mission, mainly due to the virus impacts

 

Saw that runner on CBC.  I think there might be another motive than Covid-19.

 

it's a good excuse 

 

 

That 3M mask business didn't leave Canada - or at least me - in a 'let's go help Trump fight his wars' mood.  


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