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Bestest Korea Icbm Test Launch


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#21 GARGEAN

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 0131 AM

It seems to me that positioning a taskforce with a SM-3 equipped ship a few hundred miles off Nork coast and plinking their Pukguksong-2 rockets would be a very good way to deny Norks data needed to perfect their ICBM program.

During the test? Isn't that going to be a declaration of war?
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#22 urbanoid

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 0341 AM

Crimea river. :P


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#23 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 0346 AM

Why is one side doing a test ok, but another side using the same opportunity to do a test of their own bad? I dont get that.

 

Besides, Its not as if the NK's have not had a long history of doing far, far worse themselves. Nobody ever declared war on them.

https://en.wikipedia...otdown_incident


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#24 Gregory

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 0451 AM

It seems to me that positioning a taskforce with a SM-3 equipped ship a few hundred miles off Nork coast and plinking their Pukguksong-2 rockets would be a very good way to deny Norks data needed to perfect their ICBM program.

During the test? Isn't that going to be a declaration of war?


1) What Stuart said.
2) What Urbanoid said
3) http://www.securityc...rk-north-korea/
4) Shooting down a missile outside DPRK territory would fall outside what is considered to be grounds for declaration of war. For example, Russia did not view Turkey as having declared war after Turkey's shot down a Russian fighter plane.
5) There are a lot of good arguments for US exiting the nuclear test regime in order to improve our nuclear design program. Scheduling a nuclear test around this time would be a good counter-escalation signal as well.
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#25 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 0528 AM

Besides, If North Korea really IS that unstable, there is a good case for pounding on it now before it gets long range nuclear weapons. Call it Operation E5M. :)


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#26 GARGEAN

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 0810 AM

I mean, if you have crazy neighbor with nukes, why poke him with stick and give him opportunity to hit back? Isn't better variants are don't escalate things OR go full retard and bang him with baseball bat?
And I clearly can't see crimea analogy here.


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#27 Josh

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 1004 AM

It seems to me that positioning a taskforce with a SM-3 equipped ship a few hundred miles off Nork coast and plinking their Pukguksong-2 rockets would be a very good way to deny Norks data needed to perfect their ICBM program.


As far as I know there has been an SM-3 ship off Korea for most of a decade. I'll google around and see if I can find a reference.

EDIT: can't find a reference. Did find a document documenting the possibility from ten years ago:

http://www.peacedepo...2Umebayashi.pdf

Edited by Josh, 06 March 2017 - 1014 AM.

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#28 Josh

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 1012 AM

I mean, if you have crazy neighbor with nukes, why poke him with stick and give him opportunity to hit back? Isn't better variants are don't escalate things OR go full retard and bang him with baseball bat?
And I clearly can't see crimea analogy here.


The one benefit I see to engaging DPRK missiles is that for ICBM tests, they couldn't effectively do end to end tests. Likely the most they could do is 2nd stage separation. Clearly retarding ICBM development is in US interests. In the case of these last four launches however, I believe it was a operational type and there would be little gain to engaging the targets since they fell on open water.

The down side is you can expect Lil' Kim to blow something up if that keeps happening. Also it would rankle China to no end to have a proven ABM capability sitting off its coast actively making its BM threat to its neighbors look hollow, right during the 19th party congress.

So its not clear to me that the benefits out way the cons, at least for at this time.
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#29 JasonJ

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 1018 AM

I mean, if you have crazy neighbor with nukes, why poke him with stick and give him opportunity to hit back? Isn't better variants are don't escalate things OR go full retard and bang him with baseball bat?
And I clearly can't see crimea analogy here.

 

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And finally, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahvvblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahvblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

 

Glen in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1..

 


Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. Also, blah blah blah blah blah blah Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. If, blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. Also, blah blah blah blah blah blah. Therefore, Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. Also, blah blah blah blah blah blah Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. Also, blah blah blah blah blah blah.

 

h blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

 


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blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

 

blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

 

And finally, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahvvblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahvblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

 

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.


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#30 Gregory

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 1051 AM

 


:lol:


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#31 GARGEAN

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 1059 AM

Blah

Well, okay then... I quess? But yeah, definitely can't disagree with your beautifuly constructed arguments. Sorry to all for being so blatantly wrong.


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#32 JasonJ

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 1138 AM

 

Blah

Well, okay then... I quess? But yeah, definitely can't disagree with your beautifuly constructed arguments. Sorry to all for being so blatantly wrong.

 

 

Nah, it wasn't beautiful overall. Well it was beautiful to me, and probably to some others for probably the same reason, for odd reasons. But certainly not beautiful to you and your question and you did nothing wrong so you have nothing to apologize for. I apologize to you.


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#33 GARGEAN

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 1204 PM

Nah, it wasn't beautiful overall. Well it was beautiful to me, and probably to some others for probably the same reason, for odd reasons. But certainly not beautiful to you and your question and you did nothing wrong so you have nothing to apologize for. I apologize to you.

Well, there's nothing to apologize from your side too) Just a joke.
But my point stands: I definitely not think that poking missiles during tests is good idea. It should be soft measures like now or fast and full destruction of theit nuke potential. No need to let them window to blow SK up.
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#34 JasonJ

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 1258 PM

 

Nah, it wasn't beautiful overall. Well it was beautiful to me, and probably to some others for probably the same reason, for odd reasons. But certainly not beautiful to you and your question and you did nothing wrong so you have nothing to apologize for. I apologize to you.

Well, there's nothing to apologize from your side too) Just a joke.
But my point stands: I definitely not think that poking missiles during tests is good idea. It should be soft measures like now or fast and full destruction of theit nuke potential. No need to let them window to blow SK up.

 

 

Well your point seems to be the position being taken, so its a fair point. I suppose the question then is then to what extant should North Korea be allowed to continue development? Some 10 or so years ago, it was not a situation of questioning the rationale of poking a nutty power that has nukes should when recommend shooting down one of their rockets. That is because they were not a nuclear power. Sanctions and diplomacy has failed in stopping North Korea in developing nuclear capability and further advancing their BM capability. So staying the course of so called soft measure such as sanctions and continued diplomatic talks of various kinds, such as 6 party talks, just RoK-DPRK talks, etc. seems like the result be the continued development of their capabilities. While the growth of the nuke and BM capabilities is slow, sanctions and such are supposed to have a reverse effect. It was hoped that the North Korean regime would collapse on its own. But not only does their nuke and BM capabilities seem to continue to grow, they apparently squeezed out a 1% GDP growth for the year 2016.

 

So that brings us to the other option, real military action. I think we can break it down into two kinds of military actions. The first kind being lots of airstrikes. The second being complete all out with a full ground campaign.

 

The first kind will initially be strikes solely against BM and nuke related facilities. It should be expected that North Korea will respond by bombarding Seoul. Perhaps they'll send some BMs to Japan as well. So US-led air force will also have to be available in great capacity to detect, target, and destroy as quickly as possible, any North Korean artillery and mobile BM launches that move out from hiding. Perhaps a sort of special forces raids as part of decapitation attempts can go along with this.

 

The second type being a full out ground campaign would be real dangerous because just like how China became involved in the first Korean War, it is reasonable to expect China to get involved in a second time. The reason being that North Korea growth and development is aided by China to begin with. There's a Chinese company that helps North Korea's nuclear development. And as much as one can tell, China doesn't really apply sanctions on North Korea. So no matter how much the US, RoK, Japan, etc. apply sanctions, the effect is reduced because China doesn't comply. More points can be made as to why China doesn't apply meaningful levels of sanctions. It's often said that China is actually quite annoyed with North Korea in the last few years because North Korean provocations are also said to be against China's interest. It's probably true, but I'm also a little skeptical of that point since I think China can use North Korean provocations as an additional pressure point on the US-led said in the whole Asia-Pacific region. Other pressure points being the South China Sea, Taiwan, and the Senkaku islands. Well that is a whole other matter.

 

Anyway, there have a been a few cases where nuclear development of one country has been removed. The US did successfully pressure Libya to abandon its nuclear program in 2003. Israel carried out operation Opera against Iraq's nuclear program. And of course there is the controversial Obama deal with Iran that is yet to be seen as to how effective it will be in delaying Iran's nuke program. Mind you, I'm briefly walking over loads of big topics here.

 

So for North Korea, would something like what Israel did be a good idea? It would delay, but it wouldn't stop the whole program. It may make things worse. But other means don't to seem to get North Korea to stop either. The soft approach isn't having a reversible effect on North Korea and by development continuing despite the soft approach, it might just make for a more difficult future, thus making an argument for doing something about it now that is greater than the soft approach but may still not trigger the armed conflict of either the first kind or second kind that I mentioned above.


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#35 Josh

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 1306 PM

No one is going to pre-emptively strike the DPRK, IMO. They might shoot down the missiles, but I can't even see Trump initiating a full scale war, and any limited war would rapidly become an all in type war. I'm positive the ROK, PRC, and Japan would not be in for that and two of those countries are US hosts and the third is a nuclear power.

Long before anyone starts air strikes against the DPRK I can see the ROK or Japan going break out nuclear.

EDIT: also the DPRK will never give up its nuke program, and short of a war it can't be stopped. This is the new normal.

Edited by Josh, 06 March 2017 - 1307 PM.

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#36 GARGEAN

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 1326 PM

Indeed, there is little to no possibility that soft power can eliminate NK nuke programm entirely. Just because there is possibility of use of hard power, they will never let it down.


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#37 bojan

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 1539 PM

 

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

 

Maybe first keep your word?

http://www.tank-net....92#entry1293594


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#38 JasonJ

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 1921 PM

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Maybe first keep your word?
http://www.tank-net....92#entry1293594

I'll leave it to the TN moderator to do something about it.
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#39 Nobu

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 2232 PM

 

I mean, if you have crazy neighbor with nukes, why poke him with stick and give him opportunity to hit back? Isn't better variants are don't escalate things OR go full retard and bang him with baseball bat?
And I clearly can't see crimea analogy here.

 

Well, Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. Also, blah blah blah blah blah blah Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. If, blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. Also, blah blah blah blah blah blah. Therefore, Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. Also, blah blah blah blah blah blah Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. Also, blah blah blah blah blah blah.

 

Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. If, blah blah blah blah blah blah. Because of that blah blah blah blah blah blah. blah blah blah blah blah blah.

 

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

 

And finally, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahvvblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahvblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

 

Glen in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1..

 

 


Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. Also, blah blah blah blah blah blah Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. If, blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. Also, blah blah blah blah blah blah. Therefore, Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. Also, blah blah blah blah blah blah Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. Also, blah blah blah blah blah blah.

 

h blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

 

 


Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. If, blah blah blah blah blah blah. Because of that blah blah blah blah blah blah. blah blah blah blah blah blah.

 

 

Blah blah blah Blah blah blah and Blah blah blah so blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah. And blah blah blah blah blah blah. blah blah blah blah blah blah.

 

 

 

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

 

blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

 

 

 

And finally, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahvvblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahvblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

 

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

 

 

Forum software glitch?


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#40 Simon Tan

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 2327 PM

Well, all the Malaysians in DPRK get to enjoy it without end.


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