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#421 Vasiliy Fofanov

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 1930 PM

Apparently the setup was pretty fancy. The directed blast bomb was set up on the Palestinian territory right next to the security fence, and triggered when the patrol's armored landrover approached along the rocade on the other side. So the bomb was on Pal side and the target on the Israeli side.
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#422 Marsh

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 0953 AM

The story is confusing. Khan Younis is at least 5 Km inside the border of Gaza. What is an IDF NCO doing riding a motorcycle inside Gaza? And why would Hamas plant a roadside bomb in the middle of their own territory? I was under the impression the IDF withdrew from Gaza a week ago. Then the story talks about what is apparently another incident on the border.


Hi,
I think you have misunderstood the incident. An Israeli soft skinned 4wheel drive vehicle was hit whilst travelling alongside the Israeli side of the border with Gaza. It appears to have been an IED planted on the Palestinian side with a directional blast. Shortly after an IDF helicopter gunship hit a motorbike carrying a Palestinian operative within Gaza.
cheers
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#423 DKTanker

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 1010 AM

Hi,
I think you have misunderstood the incident. An Israeli soft skinned 4wheel drive vehicle was hit whilst travelling alongside the Israeli side of the border with Gaza. It appears to have been an IED planted on the Palestinian side with a directional blast. Shortly after an IDF helicopter gunship hit a motorbike carrying a Palestinian operative within Gaza.
cheers
Marsh

After rereading the article I saw my misunderstanding.
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#424 Jeff

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 0820 AM

I'm shocked, shocked!

Account of Israeli attack doesn't hold up to scrutiny
PATRICK MARTIN
From Thursday's Globe and Mail
January 29, 2009 at 4:00 AM EST

JABALYA, GAZA STRIP — Most people remember the headlines: Massacre Of Innocents As UN School Is Shelled; Israeli Strike Kills Dozens At UN School.

They heralded the tragic news of Jan. 6, when mortar shells fired by advancing Israeli forces killed 43 civilians in the Jabalya refugee camp in the Gaza Strip. The victims, it was reported, had taken refuge inside the Ibn Rushd Preparatory School for Boys, a facility run by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency.

The news shocked the world and was compared to the 1996 Israeli attack on a UN compound in Qana, Lebanon, in which more than 100 people seeking refuge were killed. It was certain to hasten the end of Israel's attack on Gaza, and would undoubtedly lead the list of allegations of war crimes committed by Israel.

There was just one problem: The story, as etched in people's minds, was not quite accurate.

Physical evidence and interviews with several eyewitnesses, including a teacher who was in the schoolyard at the time of the shelling, make it clear: While a few people were injured from shrapnel landing inside the white-and-blue-walled UNRWA compound, no one in the compound was killed. The 43 people who died in the incident were all outside, on the street, where all three mortar shells landed.

Stories of one or more shells landing inside the schoolyard were inaccurate.

While the killing of 43 civilians on the street may itself be grounds for investigation, it falls short of the act of shooting into a schoolyard crowded with refuge-seekers.

The teacher who was in the compound at the time of the shelling says he heard three loud blasts, one after the other, then a lot of screaming. "I ran in the direction of the screaming [inside the compound]," he said. "I could see some of the people had been injured, cut. I picked up one girl who was bleeding by her eye, and ran out on the street to get help."But when I got outside, it was crazy hell. There were bodies everywhere, people dead, injured, flesh everywhere."

The teacher, who refused to give his name because he said UNRWA had told the staff not to talk to the news media, was adamant: "Inside [the compound] there were 12 injured, but there were no dead."

"Three of my students were killed," he said. "But they were all outside."

Hazem Balousha, who runs an auto-body shop across the road from the UNRWA school, was down the street, just out of range of the shrapnel, when the three shells hit. He showed a reporter where they landed: one to the right of his shop, one to the left, and one right in front.

"There were only three," he said. "They were all out here on the road."

News of the tragedy travelled fast, with aid workers and medical staff quoted as saying the incident happened at the school, the UNRWA facility where people had sought refuge.

Soon it was presented that people in the school compound had been killed. Before long, there was worldwide outrage.

Sensing a public-relations nightmare, Israeli spokespeople quickly asserted that their forces had only returned fire from gunmen inside the school. (They even named two militants.) It was a statement from which they would later retreat, saying there were gunmen in the vicinity of the school.

No witnesses said they saw any gunmen. (If people had seen anyone firing a mortar from the middle of the street outside the school, they likely would not have continued to mill around.)

John Ging, UNRWA's operations director in Gaza, acknowledged in an interview this week that all three Israeli mortar shells landed outside the school and that "no one was killed in the school."

"I told the Israelis that none of the shells landed in the school," he said.

Why would he do that?

"Because they had told everyone they had returned fire from gunmen in the school. That wasn't true."

Mr. Ging blames the Israelis for the confusion over where the victims were killed. "They even came out with a video that purported to show gunmen in the schoolyard. But we had seen it before," he said, "in 2007."

The Israelis are the ones, he said, who got everyone thinking the deaths occurred inside the school.

"Look at my statements," he said. "I never said anyone was killed in the school. Our officials never made any such allegation."

Speaking from Shifa Hospital in Gaza City as the bodies were being brought in that night, an emotional Mr. Ging did say: "Those in the school were all families seeking refuge. ... There's nowhere safe in Gaza."

And in its daily bulletin, the World Health Organization reported: "On 6 January, 42 people were killed following an attack on a UNRWA school ..."

The UN's Office for the Co-ordination of Humanitarian Affairs got the location right, for a short while. Its daily bulletin cited "early reports" that "three artillery shells landed outside the UNRWA Jabalia Prep. C Girls School ..." However, its more comprehensive weekly report, published three days later, stated that "Israeli shelling directly hit two UNRWA schools ..." including the one at issue.

Such official wording helps explain the widespread news reports of the deaths in the school, but not why the UN agencies allowed the misconception to linger.

"I know no one was killed in the school," Mr. Ging said. "But 41 innocent people were killed in the street outside the school. Many of those people had taken refuge in the school and wandered out onto the street.

"The state of Israel still has to answer for that. What did they know and what care did they take?"

http://www.theglobea...ernational/home
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#425 MDFeingold

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 1349 PM

I'm shocked, shocked!
http://www.theglobea...ernational/home


Notwithstanding Ging's evasions, the UN's other impartial spokesman, Chris Gunness, has clearly stated that the school itself was shelled, as has the UN itself: UN
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#426 Marek Tucan

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 1355 PM

I'm shocked, shocked!


http://www.theglobea...ernational/home

Gee what a surprise. Next we'll learn that those 41 dead civillians somehow shrank to 5 dead Hamasites, one destroyed mortar, and 5 dead from the cheerleading section... As with "Jenin massacre"... <_<
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#427 Jeff

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 1930 PM

It ain't over 'til it's over.

Israel Threatens 'Harsh' Retaliation Over Rocket Attacks
Sunday , February 01, 2009
AP

JERUSALEM —
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert threatened "harsh and disproportionate" retaliation after Gaza militants fired at least 10 rockets and mortar shells into southern Israel on Sunday, wounding three and raising the specter of a new round of violence days ahead of Israel's general election.

The three candidates for premier sought out microphones and cameras, leveling threats against the Hamas rulers of Gaza, an indication that the Palestinian issue is once again driving Israel's election campaign with voting set for a week from Tuesday.

A late afternoon mortar barrage on the village of Nahal Oz, next to the Gaza border fence, wounded three — two soldiers and a civilian, the military and rescue services said. Earlier, a rocket landed near a kindergarten in a community near Gaza, police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said. Warning sirens sent residents scrambling for shelter.

Since an unwritten truce ended Israel's offensive in Gaza two weeks ago, a trickle of rocket and mortar fire has been increasing. Israeli retaliation, including brief ground incursions and bombing runs aimed at rocket launchers and smuggling tunnels, is also intensifying.

The violence threatened to spiral quickly into another full-scale battle.

Olmert addressed his Cabinet before the barrage on Nahal Oz. The government's position, he said, is that "if there is shooting at residents of the south, there will be an Israeli response that will be harsh and disproportionate by its nature."

Hamas spokesman Taher Nunu said Olmert's threat was an attempt by Israel to "find false pretexts to increase its aggression against the people" of Gaza.

Israeli defense officials said they had not yet formulated a response, but said a return to the offensive — in which Israeli tanks and infantry units penetrated deep into Gaza — was unlikely. Instead, they said Israel would consider airstrikes, including attempts to kill Hamas leaders. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were discussing classified security matters.

Palestinians said residents near the Gaza-Egypt border received calls from the Israeli military after nightfall Sunday, advising them to leave ahead of Israeli attacks on smuggling tunnels. The military had no immediate comment.

Olmert is in the last weeks of his term. He resigned in September over a string of corruption investigations. Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, his Kadima Party's chosen successor, failed to put together an alternative government, forcing the Feb. 10 election.

Two of the candidate for premier — Defense Minister Ehud Barak and Livni — are in the government, competing for credit for last month's bruising offensive in Gaza. The third, Benjamin Netanyahu of the hawkish Likud Party, is sniping from the side.

Livni addressed the Gaza issue during the Cabinet meeting, according to participants. She said Israel hammered Gaza for three weeks to persuade Palestinian militants to stop their daily rocket barrages. "At a certain point we stopped to see if they had got the very clear message that Israel will not accept fire at its civilians," she said, according to the participants, speaking on condition of anonymity because the meeting was closed.

With the resumption of the rocket attacks, she said, "the response must be harsh and immediate."

Barak, too, gave his views to the Cabinet, according to a statement from his office. Trying to claim the high road, Barak said Israel would respond, but called for an end to "running off at the mouth" about the options, "even in an election season."

Netanyahu told reporters on Sunday that Israel's response must be tough, and then Israel must work for "removal of the Hamas regime in Gaza, and removal of the threat of rockets (falling) on the suburbs of Tel Aviv."

Pre-election polls show Netanyahu with a lead over Livni, and Barak trailing badly.

Alongside the escalating violence and threats, both Israel and Hamas — listed by the U.S. State Department as a sponsor of terrorism — have been talking to Egyptian mediators about a long-term truce. Israel wants an end to arms smuggling into Gaza from Egypt. Hamas wants Israel and Egypt to reopen Gaza's borders, which have been virtually sealed since Hamas violently seized power in June 2007.

Responding to Israel's concerns, U.S. Army engineers arrived at the Gaza-Egypt frontier on Sunday to set up ground penetrating radar to detect smuggling tunnels, an Egyptian security official said.

Inside the Rafah terminal — the gateway between Egypt and Gaza — four army trucks loaded with wooden crates and drills could be seen accompanied by four U.S. Army engineers. The Egyptian officials spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity the subject. Israel has repeatedly called on Egypt to do more to end the smuggling.

http://www.foxnews.c...,486345,00.html
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#428 Rod

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 1622 PM

What a shock...Jenin II afterall...

UN backtracks on claim that deadly IDF strike hit Gaza school

Last update - 22:35 03/02/2009


UN backtracks on claim that deadly IDF strike hit Gaza school

By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent

Tags: israel news, IDF, gaza, hamas

The United Nations has reversed its stance on one of the most contentious and bloody incidents of the recent Israel Defense Forces operation in Gaza, saying that an IDF mortar strike that killed 43 people on January 6 did not hit one of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency schools after all.

It seems that the UN has been under pressure to put the record straight after doubts arose that the school had actually been targeted. Maxwell Gaylord, the UN humanitarian coordinator in Jerusalem, said Monday that the IDF mortar shells fell in the street near the compound, and not on the compound itself.

Gaylord said that the UN "would like to clarify that the shelling and all of the fatalities took place outside and not inside the school."
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UNRWA, an agency whose sole purpose is to work with Palestinian refugees, said in response Tuesday that it had maintained from the day of attack that the wounded were outside of the school compound. UNRWA said that the source of the mistake in recent weeks had originated with a separate branch of the United Nations.

Senior IDF officials had previously expressed skepticism that the school had been struck, saying that two mortar shells could not kill 43 people and wound dozens more.

Questions about the veracity of the claims that the school had been hit by the IDF were also raised last week by the Canadian newspaper The Globe and Mail. The newspaper said that a teacher in the UNRWA compound at the time of the strike "was adamant" that no people had been killed inside the compound.

The newspaper quoted the teacher as saying that, "I could see some of the people had been injured... But when I got outside, it was crazy hell. There were bodies everywhere, people dead, injured, flesh everywhere."

The newspaper said that the teacher had been told by the UN not to speak to the media. "Three of my students were killed," he said. "But they were all outside."
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#429 Old Tanker

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 2055 PM

What a shock...Jenin II afterall...

UN backtracks on claim that deadly IDF strike hit Gaza school

Last update - 22:35 03/02/2009


UN backtracks on claim that deadly IDF strike hit Gaza school

By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent

Tags: israel news, IDF, gaza, hamas

The United Nations has reversed its stance on one of the most contentious and bloody incidents of the recent Israel Defense Forces operation in Gaza, saying that an IDF mortar strike that killed 43 people on January 6 did not hit one of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency schools after all.

It seems that the UN has been under pressure to put the record straight after doubts arose that the school had actually been targeted. Maxwell Gaylord, the UN humanitarian coordinator in Jerusalem, said Monday that the IDF mortar shells fell in the street near the compound, and not on the compound itself.

Gaylord said that the UN "would like to clarify that the shelling and all of the fatalities took place outside and not inside the school."
Advertisement

UNRWA, an agency whose sole purpose is to work with Palestinian refugees, said in response Tuesday that it had maintained from the day of attack that the wounded were outside of the school compound. UNRWA said that the source of the mistake in recent weeks had originated with a separate branch of the United Nations.

Senior IDF officials had previously expressed skepticism that the school had been struck, saying that two mortar shells could not kill 43 people and wound dozens more.

Questions about the veracity of the claims that the school had been hit by the IDF were also raised last week by the Canadian newspaper The Globe and Mail. The newspaper said that a teacher in the UNRWA compound at the time of the strike "was adamant" that no people had been killed inside the compound.

The newspaper quoted the teacher as saying that, "I could see some of the people had been injured... But when I got outside, it was crazy hell. There were bodies everywhere, people dead, injured, flesh everywhere."

The newspaper said that the teacher had been told by the UN not to speak to the media. "Three of my students were killed," he said. "But they were all outside."


Hey Rod !

Have you ever thought about joining the IDF ?
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#430 sunday

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 2212 PM

Hey Rod !

Have you ever thought about joining the IDF ?


Do you mean that he did not? :blink:

Seriously, Rod is a good counterweight to the lazyness or in-your-face manipulation of the various national MSMs.
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#431 Mistral

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 0128 AM

Anyone heard anything about this?
Ship detained in Cyprus

The ship is here for the last 3 days. Its Russian owned under Cypriot flag that left Iran and was headed to Syria. It was intercepted by USN ships and forced to stop here.
Rumors point to weapons for Hesbolah/Hamas but if its for the second how would they transfer them to Gaza? Well maybe that stop in Egypt might explain that :P
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#432 Sikkiyn

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 0909 AM

Anyone surprised at the lack of UN outrage?

UN says Hamas seized Gaza food aid and blankets


JERUSALEM – A U.N. spokesman says Hamas police in Gaza have seized thousands of blankets and food parcels meant for needy residents.

Spokesman Christopher Gunness says Hamas police raided a U.N. warehouse in Gaza City on Tuesday evening. He says police snatched 3,500 blankets and more than 400 food parcels.

The aid is vital now because Gazans are facing hardship after Israel's three-week military offensive against Hamas.

Hamas has ruled Gaza since it seized control of the territory in 2007. Gunness said Wednesday this is the first time Hamas has seized U.N. aid.

Israeli officials have charged that the militant group routinely confiscates supplies meant for needy Gazans.

A Hamas government spokesman was not immediately available for comment.


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#433 Rod

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 1618 PM

I am too old for that. If I ever decide to make "Alyiah" (immigrate to Israel), they would probably exempt me or at most give a basic training and never again call me up.

Hey Rod !

Have you ever thought about joining the IDF ?


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#434 Kenneth P. Katz

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 2253 PM

Maariv
Jan. 25, 2009

An Open Letter To A Citizen Of Gaza: I Am the Soldier Who Slept In Your Home

By: Yishai G (reserve soldier)

Hello,

While the world watches the ruins in Gaza, you return to your home which remains standing. However, I am sure that it is clear to you that someone was in your home while you were away.

I am that someone.

I spent long hours imagining how you would react when you walked into your home. How you would feel when you understood that IDF soldiers had slept on your mattresses and used your blankets to keep warm.

I knew that it would make you angry and sad and that you would feel this violation of the most intimate areas of your life by those defined as your enemies, with stinging humiliation. I am convinced that you hate me with unbridled hatred, and you do not have even the tiniest desire to hear what I have to say. At the same time, it is important for me to say the following in the hope that there is even the minutest chance that you will hear me.

I spent many days in your home. You and your family’s presence was felt in every corner. I saw your family portraits on the wall, and I thought of my family. I saw your wife’s perfume bottles on the bureau, and I thought of my wife. I saw your children’s toys and their English language schoolbooks. I saw your personal computer and how you set up the modem and wireless phone next to the screen, just as I do.

I wanted you to know that despite the immense disorder you found in your house that was created during a search for explosives and tunnels (which were indeed found in other homes), we did our best to treat your possessions with respect. When I moved the computer table, I disconnected the cables and lay them down neatly on the floor, as I would do with my own computer. I even covered the computer from dust with a piece of cloth. I tried to put back the clothes that fell when we moved the closet although not the same as you would have done, but at least in such a way that nothing would get lost.

I know that the devastation, the bullet holes in your walls and the destruction of those homes near you place my descriptions in a ridiculous light. Still, I need you to understand me, us, and hope that you will channel your anger and criticism to the right places.

I decided to write you this letter specifically because I stayed in your home.

I can surmise that you are intelligent and educated and there are those in your household that are university students. Your children learn English, and you are connected to the Internet. You are not ignorant; you know what is going on around you.

Therefore, I am sure you know that Quassam rockets were launched from your neighborhood into Israeli towns and cities.

How could you see these weekly launches and not think that one day we would say “enough”?! Did you ever consider that it is perhaps wrong to launch rockets at innocent civilians trying to lead a normal life, much like you? How long did you think we would sit back without reacting?

I can hear you saying “it’s not me, it’s Hamas”. My intuition tells me you are not their most avid supporter. If you look closely at the sad reality in which your people live, and you do not try to deceive yourself or make excuses about “occupation”, you must certainly reach the conclusion that the Hamas is your real enemy.

The reality is so simple, even a seven year old can understand: Israel withdrew from the Gaza strip, removing military bases and its citizens from Gush Katif. Nonetheless, we continued to provide you with electricity, water, and goods (and this I know very well as during my reserve duty I guarded the border crossings more than once, and witnessed hundreds of trucks full of goods entering a blockade-free Gaza every day).

Despite all this, for reasons that cannot be understood and with a lack of any rational logic, Hamas launched missiles on Israeli towns. For three years we clenched our teeth and restrained ourselves. In the end, we could not take it anymore and entered the Gaza strip, into your neighborhood, in order to remove those who want to kill us. A reality that is painful but very easy to explain.

As soon as you agree with me that Hamas is your enemy and because of them, your people are miserable, you will also understand that the change must come from within. I am acutely aware of the fact that what I say is easier to write than to do, but I do not see any other way. You, who are connected to the world and concerned about your children’s education, must lead, together with your friends, a civil uprising against Hamas.

I swear to you, that if the citizens of Gaza were busy paving roads, building schools, opening factories and cultural institutions instead of dwelling in self pity, arms smuggling and nurturing a hatred to your Israeli neighbors, your homes would not be in ruins right now. If your leaders were not corrupt and motivated by hatred, your home would not have been harmed. If someone would have stood up and shouted that there is no point in launching missiles on innocent civilians, I would not have to stand in your kitchen as a soldier.

You don’t have money, you tell me? You have more than you can imagine.

Even before Hamas took control of Gaza, during the time of Yasser Arafat, millions if not billions of dollars donated by the world community to the Palestinians was used for purchasing arms or taken directly to your leaders bank accounts. Gulf States, the emirates - your brothers, your flesh and blood, are some of the richest nations in the world. If there was even a small feeling of solidarity between Arab nations, if these nations had but the smallest interest in reconstructing the Palestinian people – your situation would be very different.

You must be familiar with Singapore. The land mass there is not much larger than the Gaza strip, it is considered the second most populated country in the world. Yet, Singapore is a successful, prospering, and well managed country. Why not the same for you?

My friend, I would like to call you by name, but I will not do so publicly. I want you to know that I am 100% at peace with what my country did, what my army did, and what I did. However, I feel your pain. I am sorry for the destruction you are finding in your neighborhood at this moment. On a personal level, I did what I could to minimize the damage to your home as much as possible.

In my opinion, we have a lot more in common than you might imagine. I am a civilian, not a soldier, and in my private life I have nothing to do with the military. However, I have an obligation to leave my home, put on a uniform, and protect my family every time we are attacked. I have no desire to be in your home wearing a uniform again and I would be more than happy to sit with you as a guest on your beautiful balcony, drinking sweet tea seasoned with the sage growing in your garden.

The only person who could make that dream a reality is you. Take responsibility for yourself, your family, your people, and start to take control of your destiny. How? I do not know. Maybe there is something to be learned from the Jewish people who rose up from the most destructive human tragedy of the 20th century, and instead of sinking into self-pity, built a flourishing and prospering country. It is possible, and it is in your hands. I am ready to be there to provide a shoulder of support and help to you.

But only you can move the wheels of history.

Regards,

Yishai (Reserve Soldier)
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