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Meanwhile, In Libya...


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#261 JasonJ

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Posted Yesterday, 04:43 AM

I don't particularly have a horse in this race, and I'm surprised the Russians do. What's Libya to them?

 
Same as everyone else, oil. Either control it or take out a competitor.

Having natural oil reserves can be such a curse.
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#262 Yama

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Posted Yesterday, 04:52 AM


And I think, Russia was really freaked at Gaddafi being removed. They have to demonstrate that regime change never works, just so nobody ever tries it again in Russia. I dont think either motive is mutually exclusive here.Gadd

 

Gaddafi gave up WMD and proclaimed friendship with the West. See where it got him...


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#263 RETAC21

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Posted Yesterday, 04:53 AM

Just one more play in the great game of 'Get your filthy hands off my Desert!'.

 

And I think, Russia was really freaked at Gaddafi being removed. They have to demonstrate that regime change never works, just so nobody ever tries it again in Russia. I dont think either motive is mutually exclusive here.

 

Removing Gaddafi was an error that was apparent even at the time because he had demolished the structures of the Lybian state as they were and relied on governing through the different tribes, so a civil war was inevitable. Russia had nothing to do with that and is just trying to pick up some pieces of the wreck opportunistically.


Edited by RETAC21, Yesterday, 04:53 AM.

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#264 RETAC21

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Posted Yesterday, 04:54 AM

 

 

I don't particularly have a horse in this race, and I'm surprised the Russians do. What's Libya to them?

 
Same as everyone else, oil. Either control it or take out a competitor.

Having natural oil reserves can be such a curse.

 

 

It usually is, only Norway was smart enough to mess itself up


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#265 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted Yesterday, 05:14 AM

 

Just one more play in the great game of 'Get your filthy hands off my Desert!'.

 

And I think, Russia was really freaked at Gaddafi being removed. They have to demonstrate that regime change never works, just so nobody ever tries it again in Russia. I dont think either motive is mutually exclusive here.

 

Removing Gaddafi was an error that was apparent even at the time because he had demolished the structures of the Lybian state as they were and relied on governing through the different tribes, so a civil war was inevitable. Russia had nothing to do with that and is just trying to pick up some pieces of the wreck opportunistically.

 

I completely agree. Im of the opinion if your military action wont make the situation better, why do it? It was just Cameron and Sarkozy trying to make their name by acting butch. I thought it a mistake at the time and still do.

 

Russia had nothing to do with it, other than itself being an inheritor to the Soviet Union's mistakes and supporting Gadaffi, a terrorist supporting lunatic, through to the end of the cold war. They cant escape the blame of being part of the problem, anymore than apparently they can resist still being part of it. If Russian support for a faction isnt going to make the problem better, than why do it? Its no different from what we were doing back in 2012.


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, Yesterday, 05:19 AM.

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#266 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted Yesterday, 05:18 AM

 


And I think, Russia was really freaked at Gaddafi being removed. They have to demonstrate that regime change never works, just so nobody ever tries it again in Russia. I dont think either motive is mutually exclusive here.Gadd

 

Gaddafi gave up WMD and proclaimed friendship with the West. See where it got him...

 

Yes, but he didnt have a viable WMD program, after the US had bombed the Al Rabtah chemical plant. It was easy to give up something that was stillborn, in exchange for close relationship with the west.

 

And lets not pretend that whilst that relationship lasted, it was real. There are some reports that MI6 was present at the interrogation of AQ supporters in Libya, and we supported rendition of regime enemies back to Libya. Unproven, but I personally believe it.

 

2012 was an act of blatant opportunism by truly stupid people. I cant and wont defend it. But It doesn't mean that Russia's subsequent action's in the middle east have been any better, and shouldn't be categorized as such.


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#267 bojan

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Posted Yesterday, 07:25 AM

They had quite a bit of things. Centrifuges that were used for developing stuxnet came from Libya.


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#268 Nobu

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Posted Yesterday, 02:36 PM

It strikes me that Its like the Syrian S400 battery. Its there to plant a flag in the sand and say 'hands off'. It may be militarily useless, but politically, its got some value. And if we dont respond, they have opened themselves up to the possibility of deploying more..

 

There is something to be said for the political value of drawing superpower lines in the sand like this. 

 

The Russians may be writing off the MIG deployment as the cost equivalent of an extended training/data harvesting exercise as well.


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