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China, Germany And Japan In The 1930's


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#1 Rick

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 1905 PM

My limited understanding is that Germany gave military assistance to China during their war with Japan. What was the extent of this and how did it affect German and Japanese relations. 



#2 JasonJ

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 2135 PM

I recall that in exchange for military assistance in equipment and training, Germany got raw materials in return. Some Chinese units became quite well trained but many of them got wiped out in the fighting in Shanghai in 1937. A general stalemate between advancing Japanese forces and defending Chinese happened by around the summer of 1938 where China was able to stop the advance at Wuhan IIRC. China might have been able to defend better in the long term if some of those good units were put into reserve. But then again, maybe doing so would result in Shanghai falling faster, resulting in a quicker advance towards Nanking.

Strategically speaking, Italy has a bit of a role as well, since both Italy and Japan didn't like the naval treaties. So as Japan became more distant from the UK because of the naval treaties, interest in getting closer with Italy developed.

#3 Ken Estes

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 0035 AM

Germany tapered off its assistance to China and began wooing the Japanese to enter the AntiComintern Pact, c.1935 as I recall.



#4 JasonJ

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 0224 AM

Maybe if Japan had'nt feverishly taken Manchuria, then maybe China and Japan could have established common ground in both of their on anti-communist positions. An AntiComintern Pact that had Germany, Japan, and China?

#5 Leo Niehorster

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 0234 AM

Maybe if Japan had'nt feverishly taken Manchuria, then maybe China and Japan could have established common ground in both of their on anti-communist positions. An AntiComintern Pact that had Germany, Japan, and China?

With which of the various Chinese warring factions would you have established relations? And would the other Powers in China have stood still while you did this? Anyway, the Chinese abhorred the Japanese, and the Japanese looked down on the Chinese.



#6 JasonJ

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 0257 AM

Maybe if Japan had'nt feverishly taken Manchuria, then maybe China and Japan could have established common ground in both of their on anti-communist positions. An AntiComintern Pact that had Germany, Japan, and China?

With which of the various Chinese warring factions would you have established relations? And would the other Powers in China have stood still while you did this? Anyway, the Chinese abhorred the Japanese, and the Japanese looked down on the Chinese.

Of course the history is that Japan invaded Manchuria. Any hypothetical that applies a scenerio that the Japanese do not invade Manchuria would have to assume that renegade-like generals were not influential. In that place, would be more sensible leadership. In the navy, there was a split between those that were OK with the treaty and those that were against it. In that way, the army had an alternative as well. Chiang Kai-shek and Iwane Matsui have had established a long friendship but the events put them against each other. So I would submit these two in the hypothetical. Iwane Matsui seems to have had a life long and deep admiration in Chinese culture. A tragedy that he got charged as a B-class war criminal on the Nanking Massacre and executed.

#7 Nobu

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 0743 AM

"Pride in one's own race – and that does not imply contempt for other races – is also a normal and healthy sentiment. I have never regarded the Chinese or the Japanese as being inferior to ourselves. They belong to ancient civilizations, and I admit freely that their past history is superior to our own. They have the right to be proud of their past, just as we have the right to be proud of the civilization to which we belong. Indeed, I believe the more steadfast the Chinese and the Japanese remain in their pride of race, the easier I shall find it to get on with them."

 

--Adolph Hitler



#8 JasonJ

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 0759 AM

That seems to be coming from Feb 1945.


Edited by JasonJ, 18 May 2017 - 0759 AM.





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