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#1 Mikel2

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 1224 PM

The Holland 5 submarine was the first submarine commissioned by the Royal Navy. Are there plans to raise and preserve that wreck before it's too late?

#2 Leo Niehorster

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 1251 PM

The way British museums are going right now, leave it be until HM Government recovers its senses.



#3 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 0311 AM

Well they already have one of the early Hollands in Gosport, restored to as close as they can get to in service condition. They have the last surviving (above water) WW2 built submarine parked outside. And we still have every nuclear submarine we ever built waiting decommissioning or turning into museums. Unlike the Surface fleet, you could say the Subsurface fleet as something of an embarrassment of riches. So probably not. I dont suppose they would object if a rich benefactor decided to haul it up. it would need one to stablise its condition.

 

Wouldnt any of the US museums be interested in an early Holland? Im not sure any of them have one.



#4 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 0314 AM

http://www.submarine...rines/holland-1



#5 alejandro_

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 1534 PM

Unlike the Surface fleet,

 

It is a shame that no battleships like Dreadnought or Warspite survived the war due to cost.



#6 DougRichards

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 0509 AM

The way British museums are going right now, leave it be until HM Government recovers its senses.

 

And puts one back in active service



#7 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 0647 AM

Well for surface ships, we are perhaps better off than some countries. There seems to be at least 3 WW2  Destroyers built by British yards surviving. The last Tribal is in Canada (HMCS Haida I think) We have HMS Cavalier, and there is a Polish destroyer built by a British shipyard.

https://en.wikipedia...ORP_BÅ‚yskawica

 

We no longer have any capital ships surviving, which is a shame. But we do have HMS Warrior, which is probably even more unique. And we are fairly well of for Cruisers, including Belfast, and the remarkable survivor HMS Caroline, about the last survivor on either side from Jutland above water.

 

https://en.wikipedia...Caroline_(1914)

 

I agree it would be nice to have Warspite. Still, I get the impression she was a bit of a mess internally. I find it more regrettable we didnt preserve any of the WW2 aircraft carriers. Though at least the Ark Royal survives, after a fashion.


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 29 September 2017 - 0648 AM.


#8 Mikel2

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 0324 AM

So sad that the Goeben was scrapped in the 70s too :(      What a historical ship.



#9 Mikel2

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 0326 AM

 

Unlike the Surface fleet,

 

It is a shame that no battleships like Dreadnought or Warspite survived the war due to cost.

 

 

There is one dreadnought still left, the USS Texas.



#10 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 0935 AM

So sad that the Goeben was scrapped in the 70s too :(      What a historical ship.

 

It was, but that was a ship with a LOT of blood on its hands. You can draw most of the bad things in the 20th Century, from middle eastern terrorism, the Bolshevik revolution and even the present day instability in Turkey to that one ship.



#11 TonyE

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 1008 AM

Which just goes on to make the ship even more unique.

 

The Averof on the other hand is in exellent condition.


Edited by TonyE, 30 September 2017 - 1009 AM.


#12 alejandro_

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 1509 PM

There is one dreadnought still left, the USS Texas.

 

Not long ago it was on the news, as corrosion is getting worst. It is always going to be hard to maintain these ships, unless you place them on a drydock like HMS Victory.

 

http://www.chron.com...ve-11750909.php

 

The US also kept Olympia, a veteran from the Spanish-American War.



#13 Mikel2

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 1530 PM


So sad that the Goeben was scrapped in the 70s too :(      What a historical ship.

 
It was, but that was a ship with a LOT of blood on its hands. You can draw most of the bad things in the 20th Century, from middle eastern terrorism, the Bolshevik revolution and even the present day instability in Turkey to that one ship.
We can't blame objects or Gavrilo Prinzip for all of those things. All the destructive forces that were unleashed by WWI would have likely found their way out into the world one way or another. And had Prinzip had the flu that day, William II would have found another way to precipitate a world war :(

Edited by Mikel2, 02 October 2017 - 1530 PM.


#14 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 0241 AM

 

There is one dreadnought still left, the USS Texas.

 

Not long ago it was on the news, as corrosion is getting worst. It is always going to be hard to maintain these ships, unless you place them on a drydock like HMS Victory.

 

http://www.chron.com...ve-11750909.php

 

The US also kept Olympia, a veteran from the Spanish-American War.

 

 

 

Best investment is build a dry dock (or even a coffer dam) drain it, and put in a de humidifier. They were having problems with the 170 year old SS Great Britain and they did this,  Pretty much stopped the corrosion stone dead.

 

They had a similar problem with the Humber and Severn Bridges, salt corrosion destroying the cables. Eventually they wrapped them, pumped in air ducted from a dehumidifier, no more problem.

 

 

Expensive to setup of course, but over the next hundred years, imagine the money saved on repairs.



#15 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 0248 AM

 

 

So sad that the Goeben was scrapped in the 70s too :(      What a historical ship.

 
It was, but that was a ship with a LOT of blood on its hands. You can draw most of the bad things in the 20th Century, from middle eastern terrorism, the Bolshevik revolution and even the present day instability in Turkey to that one ship.
We can't blame objects or Gavrilo Prinzip for all of those things. All the destructive forces that were unleashed by WWI would have likely found their way out into the world one way or another. And had Prinzip had the flu that day, William II would have found another way to precipitate a world war :(

 

Perhaps, but it was Goeben that was instrumental in bringing Turkey into WW1. And at that point you pretty much destroyed any form of stability the middle east had. No Goeben, no Lawrence of Arabia, no arab revolt, no allied imposed partition, no more Syria. So at the very least, we wouldnt have ISIS now.

 

Supposedly the Ottomans, long in decline, were starting to get themselves together before WW1. So if they dodged WW1, not only might WW1 been shorter, but there are a whole host of problems we have had with the middle east over the past 100 years we might have dodged.

 

Of course maybe they would have joined anyway. But it would have been later, and the ability to send forces to the Eastern Front might have proven decisive before they did, at the very least perhaps forestalling a revolution. The most you can say for sure is that world history was changed by the ship, and not for better.

 

Im glad its razor blades personally. I think it says a great deal even the Turks were glad to see the back of it.



#16 bojan

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 0631 AM

 

Supposedly the Ottomans, long in decline, were starting to get themselves together before WW1. So if they dodged WW1, not only might WW1 been shorter, but there are a whole host of problems we have had with the middle east over the past 100 years we might have dodged.

 

Ah, that British blessed ignorance that fails to see that majority of problems in ME (and to a lesser extent Balkans also) are there because of the Ottoman empire and their style of "government"... So somehow more Ottoman empire becomes good thing, despite all evidence to the contrary.


Edited by bojan, 03 October 2017 - 0632 AM.


#17 Mikel2

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 0654 AM

Stuart, then the HMS Agincourt and Erin were far more coursed, as their seizure did more to bring Turkey into the war than the Goeben and Breslau.

#18 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 0722 AM


 

 

Stuart, then the HMS Agincourt and Erin were far more coursed, as their seizure did more to bring Turkey into the war than the Goeben and Breslau.

Yeah, fair one. Ive also hear it said that German support for building a German/Ottoman Railway was also playing a political role in bringing them into the German orbit.  It may well have happened anyway. My own view, I dont really see a problem with cutting up the ship that was the final trigger.

 

Like I say, its my own view. Im all for preserving historic warships, just not that one.


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 03 October 2017 - 0803 AM.


#19 bojan

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 1039 AM

So Princip's FN 1910 should have also been destroyed?



#20 TonyE

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 1919 PM

The dutch coastal battleship Jacob van Heemskerck survived until the mid-70s aswell, when it was scrapped. Not unlike the Caroline it had then been used as stationary ship for decades, although as a floating barracks and granted somewhat rebuilt.

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