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Combat Tree - Data Synthesis For Long Range Combat Over Vietnam


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#1 TOW-2

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 1422 PM

https://tacairnet.co...m-in-the-1970s/

 

Fascinating stuff!  First I'd ever heard of it.  Of course a lot of "high tech" solutions in air warfare were pioneered in Vietnam.


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#2 Calvinb1nav

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 2016 PM

A book I have on the Iran-Iraq air war states that we sold Combat Tree to the Iranians as well. Guess it's not as sensitive as the tacair.net article suggests. Then again I'm still surprised about how much stuff from the US airwar in Vietnam is still classified, 40+ years later.
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#3 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 0149 AM

Makes you wonder why they insisted in closing to eyeball range to identify a target before shooting it really.

 

They also had some some pretty extensive radio surveillance equipment, which turned out to be very useful in giving aircraft warning to raids. There doesnt seem to have been nearly enough discussed about that, presumably because some of it is still relevant.


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#4 Josh

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 0936 AM

Well it seems it was introduced fairly late war and that it wasn't universally equipped on all fighters. That and it was a new tech that was unproven. So I can see the ROE remaining in place.

I can't quite fathom how it worked though - it seems like it could mimic the IFF challenge of the SA-2 system to provoke a response? I always assumed that the challenge was encoded as well as the response, since otherwise you can challenge an area of airspace and get valuable data back...which is apparently how this worked. It seems to me the trick was hacking the IFF prompt.
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#5 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 1125 AM

Yes, it sounds like they were getting their IFF to squawk by momentarily pretending to be a Sam battery. Which I would assume would require some kind of electronic emission to trip it? I dont know, probably something Bojan would be better placed to answer.

 

I suppose this mightt have something to do with exploitation of the Migs of the Red Eagles and a related USAF unit called the Red Hats that did technical exploitation. Funnily enough the Steve Davies book mentions absolutely nothing about IFF exploitation, but it DID mention exploitation of the Mig23 in NCTR because some air radar's were painting Mig23's as DC10s, so big was the fan blade in them.


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#6 JWB

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 1141 AM

https://en.wikipedia...TV_detector_van

 

:lol:


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#7 RETAC21

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 1158 AM

Yes, it sounds like they were getting their IFF to squawk by momentarily pretending to be a Sam battery. Which I would assume would require some kind of electronic emission to trip it? I dont know, probably something Bojan would be better placed to answer.

 

I suppose this mightt have something to do with exploitation of the Migs of the Red Eagles and a related USAF unit called the Red Hats that did technical exploitation. Funnily enough the Steve Davies book mentions absolutely nothing about IFF exploitation, but it DID mention exploitation of the Mig23 in NCTR because some air radar's were painting Mig23's as DC10s, so big was the fan blade in them.

 

This came up on the Feisbuk group some time ago, Soviet IFF of the first generation wasn't coded so once it got compromised (Iraq and Indonesian MiGs) it was easy to exploit. As the Iraquis initially had to make do with older stuff it was also effective for the Iranians and I guess, the Israelis.


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#8 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 1215 PM

Cheers for that RETAC.


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