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Australian Reconnaissance Vehicle Replacement Competitors.


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#41 2805662

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 0757 AM

You're correct - screenshot it is.

There was disappointment that 40mm CTA wasn't offered, but that walked out the door with VBCI withdrawal.

Rheinmetall state that they can offer either the MK30/2 or the Bushmaster III/Mk44. Though the MK30/2 is pictured, I hope we opt for the Mk44. (Edited to correct numeral dyslexia)

Edited by 2805662, 28 April 2016 - 1648 PM.

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#42 methos

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 0803 AM

Rheinmetall state that they can offer either the MK30/2 or the Bushmaster III/Mk44. Though the MK30/2 is pictured, I hope we opt for the Mk45.


How so? The MK30/2 comes with programmable ammunition already integrated (programmable ammunition for Mk 44 not accepted in service) and has a lower dispersion (with Nammo APFSDS at least).
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#43 Panzermann

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 1042 AM

You're correct - screenshot it is.

There was disappointment that 40mm CTA wasn't offered, but that walked out the door with VBCI withdrawal.


Australia could buy hull and turret from different vendors.


And the British Army is looking at Boxer again afaik, so the potential for a group buy with 40 mm CTA is there, but I bet the british MoD is going to delay it for so long, that they stil think about it next century...
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#44 2805662

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 1239 PM

You're correct - screenshot it is.

There was disappointment that 40mm CTA wasn't offered, but that walked out the door with VBCI withdrawal.

Australia could buy hull and turret from different vendors.


And the British Army is looking at Boxer again afaik, so the potential for a group buy with 40 mm CTA is there, but I bet the british MoD is going to delay it for so long, that they stil think about it next century...

You're right - but if it wasn't offered, that makes it difficult to buy under our rules.
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#45 2805662

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 1653 PM

Rheinmetall state that they can offer either the MK30/2 or the Bushmaster III/Mk44. Though the MK30/2 is pictured, I hope we opt for the Mk44.

How so? The MK30/2 comes with programmable ammunition already integrated (programmable ammunition for Mk 44 not accepted in service) and has a lower dispersion (with Nammo APFSDS at least).

Much larger fleet of Mk44 in service, worldwide. Reduces the chance of fleet supportability being an issue, reduces costs of support, reduces through life support costs, can piggy-back on other users development programs etc. There's also a local service & support centre for ATK chain guns already established in Australia for both the Army & Navy ATK guns.

The accuracy only has to be "good enough" - sniper-like accuracy alone wouldn't outweigh the added costs of supporting a very small fleet of these systems. I'd advocate replacing the co-ax with a FN MAG-58 for the same reasons.
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#46 Laser Shark

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 1818 PM

 

Rheinmetall state that they can offer either the MK30/2 or the Bushmaster III/Mk44. Though the MK30/2 is pictured, I hope we opt for the Mk45.


How so? The MK30/2 comes with programmable ammunition already integrated (programmable ammunition for Mk 44 not accepted in service) and has a lower dispersion (with Nammo APFSDS at least).

 

 

Huh? According to Rheinmetall, their whole family of 30mm x 173 ammo is also qualified for the Mk44...


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#47 2805662

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 2151 PM

I guess it's whether the Mk44 has the hardware fitted to program the ammunition as its fired.
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#48 Laser Shark

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 0552 AM

I guess it's whether the Mk44 has the hardware fitted to program the ammunition as its fired.

 

They must have fitted this kind of hardware to at least one gun as I can't see how they would be able to qualify their ABM round for the Mk44 without it.


Edited by Laser Shark, 29 April 2016 - 0553 AM.

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#49 methos

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 0721 AM

Huh? According to Rheinmetall, their whole family of 30mm x 173 ammo is also qualified for the Mk44...


Rheinmetall's programmable fuze for medium caliber ammo is programmed by at the end of the gun barrel via a special magnetic coil system. This concept is said to provide some advantages (like being able to take the actual muzzle velocity at the muzzle into account instead of using an hypothetical value) compared to other systems where the fuze is programmed during the time the ammunition is inside the chamber (which is the system utilized by ATK).

Ahead.jpg

In order to fully qualify all of Rheinmetall's programmable ammunition for the Mk 44 gun, the gun has to be modified with such a magnetic coil sensor and Rheinmetall's computer hardware. I cannot say that I've ever heard about this being done on a Mk 44 gun.
However the big brother of the Mk 44, the Bushmaster III for the Dutch CV9035 has been fitted with Rheinmetall's system in order to utilize AHEAD/KETF ammunition.
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#50 2805662

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 0738 AM


I guess it's whether the Mk44 has the hardware fitted to program the ammunition as its fired.

 
They must have fitted this kind of hardware to at least one gun as I can't see how they would be able to qualify their ABM round for the Mk44 without it.

Depends on the definition they were using of "qualified". I've seen air burst 40mm HV ammunition fired from a Mk19 with none of the associated hardware or software called "qualified". Technically, as the round was fired, and detonated on impact, it "qualified", even though it did not have its air burst functionality enabled.
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#51 Panzermann

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 0801 AM


I guess it's whether the Mk44 has the hardware fitted to program the ammunition as its fired.

 
They must have fitted this kind of hardware to at least one gun as I can't see how they would be able to qualify their ABM round for the Mk44 without it.
Depends on the definition they were using of "qualified". I've seen air burst 40mm HV ammunition fired from a Mk19 with none of the associated hardware or software called "qualified". Technically, as the round was fired, and detonated on impact, it "qualified", even though it did not have its air burst functionality enabled.
Could be they only verified if it is safe to fire the loading.

Adding the muzzle device shouldn t pose much of a problem, but there is no one at the moment planning to use this combination. Why waste time and money on certification that Rheinmetall would have to pay itself instead of some hypothetical customer.

Edited by Panzermann, 29 April 2016 - 0801 AM.

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#52 2805662

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 0807 AM

Makes sense.
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#53 2805662

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Posted 15 May 2016 - 2227 PM

The BAE/Patria AMV35 has arrived in Australia as of last week:

79D13AA5-721A-4BEE-A240-280F66874FF6_zps

Apparently an example will be on display at Eurosatory.

The Rheinmetall Boxer CRV has been spotted out & about in Germany:

09B6EE28-0029-47A9-B05F-F8519D26EBAA_zps
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#54 methos

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 0501 AM

The Boxer CRV was also presented on Rheinmetall's Land Forces Symposium in Germany: 2016-05-14_LFS2016_03a_JPW_IMG_9857.jpg2016-05-14_LFS2016_03b_JPW_IMG_9860.jpg Photographs from the Strategie & Technik blog.
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#55 2805662

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 0549 AM

Great pics! Got a link?

Not a fan of the clothes hanger off the back.
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#56 johnr

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 0618 AM

Seems to be there to support the equipment box, what is that for?  It's another example of giving AFV's a big butt such as the Ajax, which seems to be a current trend.

 

A minor question that has bugged me for years, what is the point of the white cross all German AFV's have on there rears?

 

Regards.


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#57 2805662

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 0619 AM

Convoy light. Never seen the X rather than the cross, though.
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#58 Panzermann

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 0807 AM

Seems to be there to support the equipment box, what is that for?  It's another example of giving AFV's a big butt such as the Ajax, which seems to be a current trend.


Soldiers turn their vehicles into gypsie wagons anyway with sometimes very outrageous contraptions to.hold equipment. Better give them a space for their stuff.
 

A minor question that has bugged me for years, what is the point of the white cross all German AFV's have on there rears?
 
Regards.


Convoy light. Never seen the X rather than the cross, though.


To further elaborate, the cross has a small light source installed that shows the following vehicle where the vehicle in front is driving when all lights are off in the dark.

Odd that they put an X instead of the regular +.

Edited by Panzermann, 16 May 2016 - 0809 AM.

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#59 jeffy_ssd

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 0834 AM

Does anyone feel that these systems are getting too high tech to be a nightmare of field maintenance or are these systems just that reliable?  It seems that simplicity was left many years ago in favor of complex equipment with lots of bells, whistles and other assorted gadgets. 


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#60 2805662

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Posted 17 May 2016 - 0447 AM

More AMV35:

3E9ACD23-3EC6-42EF-9A46-070BBBA4257E_zps
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