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Odd German Wwi Tank


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#1 cbo

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 1103 AM

Came across the pictures at the Bundesarchiv website showing a tank resembling an A7V, but not quite it.

 

Allegedly an A7V modified by a small tank unit in one of the Freikorps supporting the German goverment in 1919. The fixed "turret" seems to have been removed and replaced by two small cupolas(?) and the front heavily modified with two small machinegun turrets. Possibly, the rear have been modified the same way. Not something you just to overnight with a hammer and a blowtorch, so assumingly a manufacturer of some kind have been involved?

 

 

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Edited by cbo, 28 December 2016 - 1106 AM.

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#2 Panzermann

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 1157 AM

That should be "Heidi" of Panzer-Kampfwagen-Abteilung 54. As is painted on the bow. Regierungstreue-Truppen means government loyal troops.


IIRC it was an unarmoured A7V driving learning tank, that has been armoured and armed after the war to put down the insurrections/rebellions/revolutions in Leipzig, Braunschweig and other cities. Was handed over to the allies later, because the Versailles treaty forbade tanks for Germany's 100000 men army.

edited to correct the tank's name. it was Heidi.

Edited by Panzermann, 30 December 2016 - 0641 AM.

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#3 DogDodger

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 1330 PM

Hundleby and Strasheim posit, "One possibility is that it was fabricated from parts of the old A7V-U after the war...It may also be that Heidi was made from A7V parts with mild steel plates on a carrier chassis. This latter seems the most probable explanation." Later they are more concrete: "In January 1919 a modified A7V minus gun but with four revolving machine gun mounts, one on each corner, was used by the Freikorps in Berlin. This machine was not an original A7V, as various details show, but a Geländewagen of the Tank Training Detachment fitted with surplus armour plates, possibly from 524, A7V-U...This vehicle was used only on a few occasions. It was later named Heidi, and for some time was commanded by 2nd Lieutenant Theunissen. In July 1919, the tank was required to be delivered to the Allied Control Commission, but was afterwards scrapped, of which there is photographic evidence."
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#4 Dark_Falcon

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 1730 PM

The photo of Heidi's crew does speak to the basic inefficiency of her design.  She had a larger crew and higher silhouette than a British Mark IV or Mark V 'Female', but her combat power wasn't any greater.


Edited by Dark_Falcon, 29 December 2016 - 0946 AM.

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#5 Mikel2

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 1747 PM

The photo of Heidi's crew does speak to the basic inefficiency of her design.  She had a larger crew and higher silhouette than a British Mark Iv or Mark V 'Female', but her combat power wasn't any greater.

 

I think those tanks were conceived as employment programs :)


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#6 DogDodger

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 1958 PM

The photo of Heidi's crew does speak to the basic inefficiency of her design.  She had a larger crew and higher silhouette than a British Mark Iv or Mark V 'Female', but her combat power wasn't any greater.

Heidi's not a real A7V, but to be fair to the A7V: while it mounted only half as many guns as a Mk.IV male, for example, it had twice the MGs! In that situation, having a paltry ten more guys in your crew seems like a bargain. ;)
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#7 Markus Becker

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 0637 AM

I think those tanks were conceived as employment programs  :)

 

 

 
Or a prototype for an AFV that can function as a tank and an APC at the same time.  ;)

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#8 DougRichards

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 0640 AM

All A7V were different from very other one.  It isn't as if it was a single design.  Different manufacturers did what they could to use components that they were told to use.


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#9 cbo

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 1331 PM

Thanks for the references - you learn something new all the time.... :)


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#10 Mikel2

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 1835 PM

Interesting little video on the Versailles-dodging that followed the war.

 


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#11 Martin M

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 1046 AM

The photo of Heidi's crew does speak to the basic inefficiency of her design.  She had a larger crew and higher silhouette than a British Mark IV or Mark V 'Female', but her combat power wasn't any greater.

 

 

 

all the better against communists :-) 


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#12 Mikel2

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 1138 AM


The photo of Heidi's crew does speak to the basic inefficiency of her design.  She had a larger crew and higher silhouette than a British Mark IV or Mark V 'Female', but her combat power wasn't any greater.

 
 
 
all the better against communists :-) 

To lock them inside?
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#13 Martin M

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 1154 AM

 

 

The photo of Heidi's crew does speak to the basic inefficiency of her design.  She had a larger crew and higher silhouette than a British Mark IV or Mark V 'Female', but her combat power wasn't any greater.

 
 
 
all the better against communists :-) 

To lock them inside?

 

 

 

more men for the foray, and then to lock commies inside - that´s  a good idea


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#14 Dark_Falcon

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 1621 PM

 

The photo of Heidi's crew does speak to the basic inefficiency of her design.  She had a larger crew and higher silhouette than a British Mark IV or Mark V 'Female', but her combat power wasn't any greater.

 

 

 

all the better against communists :-) 

 

 

Well, if it had firing embrasures other than the front MG mounts a larger crew would allow for the deployment of Lewis Gun teams for street fighting.  Germany did use armored-jacket Lewis Guns converted to 7.92x57mm in some of the captured British Mark IVs it fielded, so if they had any left over Heidi might have been a good platform for them.


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